Three Days and Three Nights in Matthew 12:40

Discussion in 'Sacred Scripture' started by rstrats, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Jay,

    Since it appears that you are not a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate you probably aren't aware of any examples.
     
  2. alphaomega

    alphaomega Active Member

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    Afraid not.
     
  3. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    jay,
    re: "Afraid not."

    OK, perhaps someone new looking in will know of examples.
     
  4. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    The Messiah said that 3 night times would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth". However, there are those who believe that the Messiah died on the 6th day of the week and who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the time between the leaving of His spirit from His body and His resurrection on the 1st day of the week. But this belief allows for only 2 night times to be involved. To reconcile this discrepancy some say that the Messiah was using common Jewish figure of speech/colloquial language. I am simply asking for examples to support that assertion of commonality; i.e., examples where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred.
     
  5. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Since it's been awhile, maybe someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.
     
  6. Shane R

    Shane R Active Member

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    I was reading something from Basil of Caesarea the other day and he was not overly concerned with the 3 days and nights idiom in any sort of literal sense, but rather converted the figure into 40 hours in the tomb. He did this because of the symbolical importance of 40 in both Testaments: 40 years, 40 days, finally 40 hours. It made a lot of sense to me but I don't have the book -or the passage- at hand just now.
     
  7. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Shane R,

    I'm afraid your comment deals with issues with regard to a different topic.
     
  8. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    The discrepancy might simply be because Jesus never said 'nights', as reported in Matt.12:40. This was a direct quote from the Book of Jonah, where indeed it says Jonah was 'three days and three nights' in the belly of a fish.

    Every other instance of Jesus or anyone else referring to the time that Jesus claimed, or others claimed, would elapse before he rose again to life, has "Three Days" and no mention whatever of "nights".

    Matt.26:61, Matt.27:40, Matt.27:63, Mk.8:31, Mk.14:58, Mk.15:29, Jn.2:19-20.

    Would it be stretching the inspired nature of the scriptures, and their reliability, to point out that Jesus is only 'reported' to have said 'nights' because it says 'nights' in the book of Jonah. Jesus may well have left out 'nights' when speaking to the crowd. He only ever referred to 'days' even in the same author's gospel, Matthew. Both other references are only to 'days'. Could the author simply have assumed that Jesus must have said 'nights' as well as 'days' when referring to Jonah, because when he researched Jonah, Matthew found, 'days AND nights' in the fish's belly. So that is what he wrote down, understandably enough, as what Jesus must have said. The same author and all others, seems to have dropped the 'nights' altogether when actually referring to the resurrection event itself, rather than to a reference to a mere quote in a story, in an Old Testament book.
     
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  9. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Chris Medway,

    I'm afraid your comments deal with an issue for a different topic.

    The topic title and OP were poorly conceived with regard to the intent of the topic. It was clarified in a subsequent post but perhaps a further wording will make it more clear:

    1. The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth"

    2. There are those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

    3. Of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.

    4. A 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

    5. To account for the lack of a 3rd night, some of those mentioned above say that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language.

    6. I wonder if anyone who falls in that group of believers could provide examples to support that belief of commonality; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime and/or no part of a night time could have occurred?
     
  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    Ahh, I see. I can't help you by supplying any information on the question then. Apart from offering my opinion that Occam's Razor might solve the riddle as I suggested in my previous post. Perhaps Jesus never said it. The question and the need for an answer to it then evaporates.
     
  11. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Tiffy,
    re: "The question and the need for an answer to it then evaporates."

    What do you think the question is?
     
  12. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    "I wonder if anyone knows of any writing from the first century or before that shows a phrase stating a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights when it absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?"

    The need for a written example of 3 days/nights being inclusive etc, becomes unnecessary if Jesus was actually only two actual nights in the tomb, resurrected in the early morning of the 3rd day, as the scriptures generally agree. Matt.16:21, Matt.17:23, Matt.20:19, Matt.27:64. Mk.9:31, Mk.10:34. Lk.9:22, Lk.13:32, Lk.18:33, Lk.24:7, Lk.24:21, Lk.24:46. Acts.10:40, 1 Cor.15:4.

    The whole anomaly seems to me to be about how time/ days / nights etc were measured at the time of Christ, and whether Jesus died on Thursday or on Friday, with the Friday being the most likely possibility. The trial before Caiaphas being illegally held, at night, on the Thursday night, or in darkness, early Friday morning after midnight, our time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  13. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Tiffy,
    re: "The need for a written example of 3 days/nights being inclusive etc, becomes unnecessary if Jesus was actually only two actual nights in the tomb..."

    How would the show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur?
     
  14. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    How is this speculation even relevant if Jesus spent only two nights in the tomb? Are you just curious about how they measured and wrote about days and nights back then?

    What would be the relevance to a resurrection on the third day? Why the question?
     
  15. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Tiffy,
    re: "How is this speculation even relevant if Jesus spent only two nights in the tomb?"

    The Messiah said He would be 3 nights in the heart of the hearth. If He only spent 2 nights there, it would seem to be natural to ask for some sort of an explanation for the discrepancy. One explanation has been that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period. I simply would like to know what examples are being used in order to say that it was common, i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime and/or no part of a night time could have occurred?



    re: "Are you just curious about how they measured and wrote about days and nights back then?"

    For the purpose of this topic I'm merely curious if it was common to say that a daytime or a night time was involved with an event when no part of a daytime and/or no part of a night time could have occurred.
     
  16. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    I have already answered the question. Answer is 'Probably Jesus never said "Nights"', even though he is reported to have done so. Reason: Matthew is quoting Jonah, not necessarily Jesus, and didn't want to misquote the Jonah text that he had before him when he wrote his Gospel. Or perhaps Jesus, when he was unjustly and illegally killed and descended to the dead, was let off early for 'good behaviour', so hell could not hold him for a third night. Perhaps as a living human being quoting Jonah, he could not foresee that unexpected eventuality.

    The fact is that Matthew himself twice states Jesus rose on the 3rd day, apparently not including a 3rd night. And all other references to the resurrection, which I have already quoted references for, state that he rose on the Third Day.

    As far as your question is concerned, you will probably never get an answer to it because perhaps no one knows, but I suggest you do the research yourself, rather than asking others to do it for you. I wish you well in your quest. When you have finally come up with something conclusive, perhaps you will share with us the fruits of your labours.
     
  17. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Tiffy,
    re: "As far as your question is concerned, you will probably never get an answer to it because perhaps no one knows..."

    So how do you suppose some could say it was common if no one 'knows' of other instances?



    re: "...I suggest you do the research yourself..."

    That's what I'm doing.



    re: "...rather than asking others to do it for you."

    I have never asked anyone to do that.
     
  18. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    Then I for one am unable to answer your question, and I suspect that it will have to remain unanswered. Sorry!
     
  19. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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  20. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Lowly Layman,
    re: "Here is an interesting discussion on the topic:"

    The author of your link does not provide any examples which show that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.
     

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