I see. Thanks for that elaboration. Yes, there are an amazing, ridiculous number of people out there who think they've gotten a prophetic message from the Lord. Fortunately (?) they seem to mostly be "forecasts" of future events and not "revelations" of new doctrine, so the damage has been less than it could have been. But there have been some of the doctrinal type "revelations" also, and we see some fairly young cults (LDS, JW, etc) that have sprung up around the teachings of those deceived people. In a major 'word of faith' church (this was some years back) I heard plenty of good, sound Bible teaching, but I also heard a couple of things (based on "personal revelations") that were false, harmful, and potentially even destructive to faith in the Lord. I have had online conversations with some members of the Roman church who do not think Christians are supposed to be led by the Holy Spirit. I'm not too confident that the Holy Spirit resides in them at all, when I see them talk that way. The blind lead the blind.
Because we are dealing with things which are completely invisible, it is hard to know where to draw the lines... Once you say you are led by the Holy SPirit, then maybe things you feel are the motions of the Spirit? Who knows? Who's to say? So you indulge all kinds of actions based on the motions of your feelings...... If you feel that God is four persons, and you went on a mountain and prayed for 40 days and came down with 100% conviction that God had 4 persons, then who can deny you? We haven't seen the 3 persons, so how do we know? Therefore to draw boundaries and limits to what can be "the work of the Spirit" is one of the biggest challenges to Christians right now... But the same time, by the command of the special revelation (the scriptures) we know about the reality of the Holy Ghost... And even by the visible testimony of people, saints, we know that the Christian faith is the most unique and only type of faith in the world, so we can see God's hand even if we can't see God Thus we have to wade very carefully between indulging too much in the things which we can't see or know boundaries of, and rejecting it altogether and relying only on what we can see and feel with our two hands
Well, there are definitely some aspects of scripture such as Revelation and other prophetic books that haven't been fully revealed yet, but will be, and their contents will not be codified in scripture, but yet they must be consistent with it in some way. "People will see visions and dream dreams" and such. The Catholic Answers forum is full of irony. Despite being led by the "Bible Answer Man" of Catholic Apologetics, the forum is full of heresy and ignorance more often than not. Catholics arguing with each other on who is more knowledgeable of doctrine than others, misleading members who ask, encouraging numerous other heresies such as acceptance of occultic/new age practices in the church, denial of the existence of miracles, creation, and demons while claiming adherence to the church, even citing personal testimonies and written works claiming to know of 'valid' priests who were possessed, sometimes for as long as 20 years, and needing multiple exorcisms throughout their lives (not just oppression but full on possession). Very ludicrous.
Jesus said “I am The Way, the Truth, and the Life, none can come to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6). What does Truth have to do with lies?: “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (John 8:44). Gnosticism in all five forms (including Catharism) is a lie. Gnosticism does not acknowledge the Truth that Jesus is God (Titus 2:13, Colossians 2:9, 2 Peter 1:1, John 1:1-17, Colossians 1:16-18) and that He came in a human body (John 1:3, 1 John 4:1-3, Luke 2:1-21, Matthew 1:20-25) and anyone who does not acknowledge Jesus came in the flesh is antichrist, “Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a prophetacknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here.” (1 John 4:1-3). Gnostics do not acknowledge the Incarnation, which means they do not acknowledge the True and Orthodox belief that God the Son became a human and died on the cross and rose from the dead; the Gospel (1 Peter 2:24, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, 1 John 2:1-2). In point of fact, Gnostics believe another (false) gospel as desribed by the apostle Paul, “Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:7-9), and “But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it way too easily.” (2 Corinthians 11:3-4). The apostle tells us to focus on what is true and worthy, “Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things,” (Philippians 4:8) to take captive all thoughts, “We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.” (2 Corinthians 10:5); and to find the true wisdom in the Orthodox Christ, “for in Christ is all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” (Colossians 2:2-3). Most of all we must keep our eyes fixed on Christ, “Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Hebrews 12:2). Gnosticism thrives on secret knowledge (gnosis) but Jesus spoke not in secret, “2Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.” (John 18:20) and condemned secret knowledge, “"But I also have a message for the rest of you in Thyatira who have not followed this false teaching ('deeper truths,' as they call them--depths of Satan, actually). I will ask nothing more of you” (Revelation 2:24 NLT). We are called to know as in know (Ginosko, Epignosko) in personal and deep relationahip Jesus (John 17:3, Philippians 3:8). I suggest that it is unwise to preoccupy our minds with lies such as the Gnostic gospels, for lies can mess with minds, it did so successfully in Esen (Genesis 3), ans the apostle wasna us not to be decieved like Eve (2 Corinthains 11:3-4). And as aforementioned we are commended to come against false ideologies, “We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ,” (2 Corinthians 10:5) and to huard our hearts and minds in Christ, “And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 4:7). It is not peace to fill our minds with errors and lies like Gnosticism, Neatorianism, Arianism, and etc. Instead we should count all lost but knowing Christ Jesus, “Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ. and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.Let all who are spiritually mature agree on these things. If you disagree on some point, I believe God will make it plain to you ” (Philippians 3:8-9, 15 NLT). I would not touch the Gnostic gospels. However, If you intend to read a factual account about Gnosticism from an expert, I suggest you check out: A History of the Early Church to A.D. 500, Chapter V: Gnosticism, by Dr. John William Charles Wand. Dr. Charles Wand was Bishop of London. He has doctorate in Theology and gives factual accounts of the heresies from 100-500 A.D. Be warned that Dr. Wand goes into Gnostic beliefs in detail and they are mind bending. I do not suggest reading his Chapter V: Gnosticism unless one can handle reading error and not be effected by it. For most I say pay heed to the Scriptures aforementioned.
But Jesus did speak in secret and not openly to the world! Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. Mat 16:20 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. Mat 17:9 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them. Mat 8:4 And he charged them that they should tell no man: but the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it; Mk 7:36 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him. Mk 8:30 I haven't read Wand But I have read Elaine Pagels (also a Phd) and she suggests Paul was an inspiration for Gnosticism. I forget the reason why , but I think it was Pauls going on about knowledge.
Aren't you creating a false equivalence? On the one hand, Jesus told His disciples to keep things quiet for a while, implying that it wasn't time yet for certain things to be 'noised about' because it would inhibit His activities in the short term. On the other hand, Gnostics promoted the reception of 'secret' knowledge as a means of salvation, while they simultaneously rejected the truth of Jesus Christ incarnate of the virgin, crucified and died for our sins, and raised from the dead for the salvation of all who would place their trust in Him.
This isn't a correct... It's like that mistake which claims today's validity for the OT disciplines such as capital punishment for sodomy The reason those no longer apply is because of a different era; And the reason why the intentional obfuscation for our Lord no longer applies is because of the different time periods! In the early part of his ministry our Lord was insistent on not being known by the general population, because he knew that once they knew who he was, he would be forthwith executed... Thus he strictly enjoined on his followers to tell no one However once time came to reveal himself to the world, as he travels to Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, with the solemn realization that now everyone will know who he is, and the chain of events is irrevocably started which will lead to his death and crucifixion, the situation changes substantially... He raids the Temple and whips the moneychangers, he debates with the chief Pharisees, he has the Last Supper, is betrayed by Judas and arrested by Rome, is executed by the Romans on the insistence of the Rabbis, is crucified on Good Friday and is resurrected on Easter Sunday Then after his resurrection he appears to his disciples, and tells them to go and baptize and evangelize the whole world It is AGAINST this chain of history that the gnostic heretics continue (long after Jesus' reveal and entry in Jerusalem, long after his great Commission to baptize the nations), to continue hiding and obscuring the Gospel
I also presume the gnostics weren't to keep there secret knowledge forever as well. You mean like this "Let us give glory to God! He is able to make you stand firm in your faith, according to the Good News I preach about Jesus Christ and according to the revelation of the secret truth which was hidden for long ages in the past" Rom 16:25 I sort of agree with this. All the OT's "Thou shalts" are of course directed at the Jews and so doesn't apply to you or me. But I note, in a letter directed to say the Corinthians its messages are said to apply to all of us, whereas I say they should only apply to the Corinthians. Hey no hate mail I'm just livening up the forum
You know there was a Fr. Butcher, who has since died, who was rector of a SoCal Episcopal parish (not in the diocese of LA, however), who argued that the creeds should be abolished as they “disrupt the flow of the liturgy.” In support of his argument he quoted the Gnostic Gospel of Mary! Fr. Brian Owen of Louisiana wrote a nice blog post covering the incident: http://creedalchristian.blogspot.com/2008/08/creeds-are-defective.html You can’t make this stuff up. (I should add I’m rather a fan of Fr. Brian for the heresiological work he did within the Episcopal Church, and his ceaseless advocacy for a creedal Anglican orthodoxy; I would note there is no substantial difference between his religious perspective and mine).
It would have made far more sense for Butcher to have advocated adding an extra sentence to the Creed (something like, "He went about teaching, healing, and doing good") rather than deleting the entire Creed! Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath.
The Armenian Orthodox liturgy actually adds a few clarifying statements to the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381.