What Kind of Loyalty do we owe the government?

Discussion in 'Family, Relationships, and Single Life' started by bwallac2335, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    322
    Likes Received:
    257
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    ACNA
    So you but then again I can't predict what position (or non position) you'll hold a few comments later so I'm bowing out of this discussion permanently as it is unedifying by this point.
     
  2. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    821
    Likes Received:
    298
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    What kind of loyalty did Paul show 'The Government'?

    But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” 1 Cor.15:23-27.

    Far from Paul suggesting here that Christ's disciples must subject themselves to all earthly authority because God instituted it, Paul actually states that Jesus Christ will destroy all earthly authority which opposes to HIS total sovereignty.

    But Paul is not inciting rebellion by followers of Christ. He is very clearly stating that Christ HAS all authority and all authorities which do not bow to his authority, will be destroyed. All things are in subjection under God's feet. Especially those earthly powers which oppose Him, i.e His enemies.

    If President Trump is drawing comfort from Rom.13 and expecting meek compliance from disciples of Jesus Christ, to his 'presumed divinely ordained authority', who have respect for Truth, Life, and The Way, then perhaps he has misread 1 Corinthians 15:23-27, if, judging by his aversion to and perversion of, the truth, he has ever read it at all.
    .
     
  3. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    683
    Likes Received:
    414
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    That last paragraph strikes me as inappropriate and ill-informed. None of us can know for certain the spiritual condition of any individual, nor is it appropriate to pass judgment on the individual (Luke 6:37) or to presume to know his heart and motivations. As I've pointed out before, misinformation abounds in mainstream media.

    As a broad proposition (and not pointing fingers), I would find the vilification and naked animosity of our President from noncitizens of the US to be laughable were it not so sadly misplaced. After eight years of Obama, who knew no Bible but could freely quote the Quran, who said that the Muslim call to prayer was the sweetest sound on earth, who avoided meeting with Christian ministers, who wholeheartedly supported abortion, and who never celebrated Christian holidays but observed Muslim ones, I and many other Christians find it most refreshing to have a President and First Lady who openly give glory to Almighty God, lead prayers in public, fully support Right to Life, and have monthly meetings with Christian ministers for advice and prayer. Whether I like his style, mannerisms and loose lips (I don't) or agree with everything he does (I don't) is beside the point. I give him credit for trying to serve the best interests of this nation's citizens and for the good things he has accomplished.

    I hope that no one will display relative ignorance by criticizing what they do not know or understand, do not have sufficient information about, and about which they have no 'skin in the game.'
     
  4. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    821
    Likes Received:
    298
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    That might be more resulting from an internal bias as from an external observation.

    I pronounced no judgment whatever on your President. Someone else more elevated than I will do that. Nor did I presume to know his heart or his motivations, I merely referred to the plethora of well documented and proven lies he has actually been caught out in. I judge with true judgment, not by appearances. John 7:24. I judge many of his words and subsequent contradictions to be mendacious, I don't know his reasons for saying them and didn't judge his person. You will notice, I hope, that the words 'IF' qualified everything in the sentence you so objected to.

    And much of it also comes from the Oval Office nowadays.

    The rest of your comments are off the subject which was actually the misinterpretation and possible abuse of Rom.13 by those in authority. The Bible does not endorse all authority as being representative of God's intentions. In fact The Bible clearly states that all authority other than Christ Himself will be destroyed by God at the end of the age. Meanwhile they are as subject to Christ and his authority as anyone else and will be held to account at the judgment for every injustice they have perpetrated, if enemies of God, as some undoubtedly are, according to scripture.
    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  5. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    683
    Likes Received:
    414
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    That cuts both ways.

    Someone once observed that when a man points a finger at another, he has three fingers pointing back at himself. ;)
     
  6. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    821
    Likes Received:
    298
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    Nearly always true unless one is Jesus. :laugh:
     

Share This Page