What do you know about convergence movement (ICCEC,The CEEC, ACCC, etc.)

And they would disagree with you and say they base their beliefs on the Bible as final authority, which all non-RCC or EOC bodies do.

 

I'm sure our debate has cured many an insomniac, but I'm still puzzled why you're here. I'm here to learn of Anglican history and doctrine, not to criticize centuries of learning, instruction and practice, and I think the Moderators have given you great latitude and grace, let's not wear them thin. Feel free to PM me if you wish to continue to beat the horse, otherwise, I'm finished.

Jeff

 

I'm here for fellowship, theological discussion, and because I identify with and like Anglicanism -- the Articles, liturgy, depth and breadth of doctrine. I affirm the classical Anglican view of the historic episcopate. I affirm the Anglican doctrine of the primary and final authority of scripture. I try to make my posts based on that scripture, scholarship, and history. I'm sorry if that makes some uncomfortable; facts often do. For those, maybe it is they who should not be here. I have posted the truth, and frankly I am tired of being invited to leave because of it.

 

Then perhaps you should stop threatening to do so in your tantrums, and please don't claim memory loss this time, it's unbecoming of a Priest.

Jeff

 

Facts, which you seem to have a problem with: I do not have tantrums; I am a bishop; you should stop your insults and falsehoods -- it's unbecoming in a priest. Didn't your parents ever teach you manners?

 

So you've gone from "associate Priest" (your words) to a Bishop. Interesting. Also, I was always clear in my posts that I'm finishing my undergraduate degree and praying about which seminary to attend. I'm not a Priest, in fact I specifically mentioned I was praying about the Professional Diaconate. My beliefs, goals, values, and identity have never been cloaked, I listed my real name, the City, Diocese, and Parish which I belong to, and have nothing to hide, and if your comment is true, than neither do you. It confirms my suspicions and explains a lack of response in another arena. Now, if you'll excuse me Bishop, I'll return to the "sodomite affirming, baby killing" church you claim that many of us here belong to.

Jeff

 

You really do need to learn to read. I don't know where you get the term "associate priest". I have made it clear from the start that I am a bishop in an independent Old Catholic jurisdiction with Celtic rots and Convergence emphasis. I am a clergy (bishop) associate member of the AMiA; I have stated that many times. I don't know what your "suspicions" are, but they are baseless, as are your accusations. As for the TEC, many have left it because they cannot abide apostasy. Good luck with your shrinking congregations and shrinking denomination as people vote with their feet.

If you were a priest in my jurisdiction, you would learn how to respect your elders -- yes, pun intended.

 

Just for the record: I was ordained a pastor in 2002. One year later I was consecrated bishop. In 2005, I was made an archbishop. We are an international jurisdiction; we have bishops, pastors, and members in Latin America, the Caribbean, Australia, several countries in Africa, and last summer I was the lead consecrator of our newest international bishop, in the UK.

We have intercommunion with several denominations -- those with the historic episcopate and those without. A few of those are Anglican denominations.

I do not disclose my real identity because I have found that there are nutcases on the internet -- yes, even on religious forums. Several years ago, I was threatened by one such individual when I was using my real name.

 

You'll have to excuse me Sir, post #25 in this thread is the very first time I've seen you lay claim to your position since I've been on this forum. Previously you mentioned that you were an "Associate Clergy" member with no clarification of what capacity that was (Deacon, Priest, or Bishop). As to your juvenile comment of forcing me to respect you, respect is something that is earned not demanded, and since you're a mere 5 years older than me, you're neither an elder in the physical or spiritual sense by your actions. I now see why others here put quotation marks around your numerous titles and affiliations. Good luck in your endeavors, and maybe someday you can find a forum which holds to your amalgamated theology.

Jeff

 

Obviously you did not read my introduction, and, as I mentioned, you obviously have problems with reading in any capacity, and also you have a problem in that you misrepresent and twist what I say -- not a very good quality in a minister or minister candidate. This is evidenced again by your insulting comment about my forcing you to respect me. This is what I said: "If you were a priest in my jurisdiction, you would learn how to respect your elders -- yes, pun intended." Do you not know what a pun is? Still, clearly I cannot force you to respect me on a forum and have no wish or need to; what I was saying was that if you were a priest in my communion, you would learn and learn quickly to respect those in authority over you -- whoever that might be, whether myself or someone else -- or you would be looking for another place to exercise your "ministry", as we brook no impudence in our ministers.

And yet, respect on a Christian forum should not have to be earned but should be given as a matter of courtesy and Christian integrity.

Numerous titles and affiliations? Another falsehood. And the reason some have put quotation marks around the office I hold is to insult me because they didn't like what I was saying -- a cheap and disgraceful tactic, especially on a Christian forum.

You continue to try to disparage me by calling my theology "amalgamated". Well, it is not nearly as "amalgamated" as Anglican theology, but I do not use this word to disparage Anglicanism; on the contrary, I firmly believe that comprehensiveness is one of the greatest attractions, strengths, and positive attributes that Anglicanism has.

Oh, btw, you said you were finished. What's the matter -- did you have a memory lapse like you accused me of having?

You may be only five years younger than I, but you have some maturing to do if you expect to be an effective minister, and talking about respect needing to be earned, you'll never get there by repeated insults and misrepresentations of what someone has said.

From the beginning, I had liked you; I hate that it had to end up this way. I still hope and pray that you find the place of service that God has for you.

 

Maybe the unanswered question is why did it end up this way? I've communicated with dozens of people on this forum, from all different backgrounds and perspectives, and there hasn't been a single confrontation. Obviously I'm not alone in my observations of your comments, some chose to insult and label you, some chose to hit the "ignore" button, but I chose to challenge your beliefs. Your outright hatred of the Episcopal Church is obvious and perhaps you associate my presence there as accepting the things you vehemently object to, but the reality is that you and I share the same outrage, I just chose a different path to deal with those issues. My background is as varied as yours, perhaps more so. I graduated from an unaffiliated Baptist bible college, served as an Associate Pastor there, also with the Independent Christian Church, and even a brief run with the Lutheran's when the noose of the Pharisee's had choked me out of the fundamental church. I finally realized that God's framework was still present in the Episcopal Church of my youth, but that some of it's family had left for seemingly greener pastures. You need not pray for guidance for me, God has shown me the place and I'm there for the long run. As I said earlier, even if they remove me from an official capacity, I will be a loud conservative voice in the pew. I can appreciate your passionate remarks against the EC, but I have the same objections to most of the late Reformation/Azuza churches that exist in America today, with their perverted and unscriptural views of salvation and baptism. Maybe we're more alike than either of us wish to admit, may God show us common ground.

Jeff

 

Do you observe Lent? Do insults have any place in Lent (or ever, really)?