Thoughts on Crucifixes

Discussion in 'Faith, Devotion & Formation' started by bwallac2335, Feb 13, 2022.

  1. CRfromQld

    CRfromQld Moderator Staff Member

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    The cross is a sign, but not an idol.
     
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  2. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Let's hear what the word of God has to say about the cross. You'll respect what the Bible says, won't you?

    1Cor_1:17-18 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
    The message of the cross is "the power of God," not a curse, to Christians.

    Gal_6:14 But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
    Christians can boast in the cross of our Lord, because through it He won the victory for our sakes. The cross is a sign of victory over spiritual death.

    Eph_2:16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
    The cross is a sign of our reconciliation to God through Christ.

    Php 3:17-20 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ
    Unrepentant sinners "walk as enemies of the cross of Christ," but Christians walk as friends with the cross and with what it represents to us.

    Col_1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
    To a Christian, the cross should be a sign of true peace: peace between God and the Christian.

    Col_2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
    The cross represents the Christian's liberation from bondage to sin and from sin's penalty, because Jesus bore these things on the cross for our sakes. The sign of the cross is the exact opposite of a curse; it is a sign of God's grace and blessing bestowed to us through faith, though we deserve it not.

    Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that the cross of Christ represents a curse to us Christians. Instead, the Bible plainly teaches that we should rejoice in the cross. Had Jesus not freely given His life on the cross, we would be dead in our sins; instead, by the cross He has made us alive to God. Hallelujah!
     
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  3. Br. Thomas

    Br. Thomas Member

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    And? Where is the divine condemnation of Crucifixes and Crosses? I fail to see it.
     
  4. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Oseas said:

    1 Timothy 4:v.1-2

    1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and DOCTRINES OF DEVILS;

    2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    1Corinthians 10:v.21 -Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the CUP of DEVILS: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of DEVILS.


    JESUS said: He that believeth on me, as the SCRIPTURE hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. John 7:v.38

    Oseas said:

    Revelation 9:v.20-21

    20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship DEVILS, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

    21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.


    The Word of GOD that quoted above is not abomination except for you. In my view what is ABOMINATION are your idolater and satanic crufixes, understand?
    Revelation 21:v.8
    8 But the fearful (the cowards), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and SORCERERS, and IDOLATERS, and all LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
     
  5. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Revelation 9:v.20-21

    20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the WORKS OF THEIR HANDS, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

    21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
     
  6. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Revelation 9:v.20-21

    20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the WORKS OF THEIR HAND, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

    21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
     
  7. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Romans 14:4. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, I shall be holden up: for God is able to make me stand. Matthew 16:23. Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. You are not the only one able to quote scripture.
    .
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  8. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Rev. 9 has nothing to do with crosses. We do not worship crosses (but we respect them), so this passage does not apply to us. I think you have made up your mind ahead of time that crosses are evil, and your preconceived idea is preventing you from accepting what the Bible actually says (which I quoted) about the cross.

    As early as 204 A.D., Tertullian wrote that it was common practice for followers of Christ to frequently make the sign of the cross on their own foreheads. The cross has been a part of Christianity from the beginning.

    If the cross is such a curse, wouldn't Jesus have told His disciples to have nothing to do with the cross? Instead, Jesus said the opposite: Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. (Mark 8:34) The cross is a mark of true servanthood and submission to God, and service to one another.
     
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  9. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    John 12:v.47-48
    47 - If any man hear my words, and believe not, I Judge him not: for I came not to Judge the world, but to save the world.

    48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath ONE that Judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken(the Word is GOD, understand?), the same shall Judge him in the Last Day. (This Day arrived, the Lord's Day, that is the seventh and Last Day, or seventh and last millennium) Jewish Calendar - How to explain the difference of exactly 240 years in the Jewish calendar? | Pure Bible Forum (and see www.sinaiticus.net )

    Romans 2:v.5 to 16

    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;

    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the JEW FIRST, and also of the GENTILE;

    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

    12 For as many as have sinned without law (the Gentiles) shall also PERISH without law: and as many as have sinned in the law (the Jews) shall be Judged by the law;

    13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

    14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

    15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

    16 In the Day(the Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day) when GOD(the Word is GOD) shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
     
  10. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Cross is CURSE, every place where there is a cross there there is ONLY AND ONLY CURSE, like your icon for example, it is CURSED.

    Matthew 25:v. 41 -
    41 Then shall JESUS say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye CURSED, into everlasting fire, prepared for the Devil and his messengers.
     
  11. Br. Thomas

    Br. Thomas Member

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    Uh...crucifixes and crosses are NOT idols. They are not worshipped. I do believe you are walking a path of misunderstanding.
     
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  12. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,

    Know the LORD: for they shall all know me,

    from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:

    for I will forgive their iniquity,

    and I will remember their sin no more. Jer. 31:34

    __________________________________ And:

    For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord;

    I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:

    and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    And they shall not teach every man his neighbour,

    and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord:

    for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

    For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness,

    and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Heb. 8:11.

    At least this was worth the effort at cut and pasting Bible texts, using them as weapons in a self righteous, self appointed holy war against other's supposed infidelity. Unfortunately the meaning of the words of our saviour here seem to have completely escaped the paster's attention.

    Jesus Christ is the Word of God, and none other. Misinterpretation of the words in the Bible is refutation of The Word of God, who is Jesus Christ, (the same yesterday, today and for ever).
    .
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
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  13. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    If you could show us in the word of God (the Bible) where it states that crosses or depictions of crosses are a curse, we could understand your claim. But simply repeating your unsupported claim does not make it so.

    The crosses we wear and use in church are representations and reminders of the cross of Christ. The word of God says that Christians can "boast" or "glory" in the cross of Christ: "Mas longe esteja de mim gloriar-me, a não ser na cruz de nosso Senhor Jesus Cristo, pela qual o mundo está crucificado para mim e eu para o mundo." This is because Jesus became a curse for us, so we would be redeemed from the curse. "Cristo nos resgatou da maldição da lei, fazendo-se maldição por nós; porque está escrito: Maldito todo aquele que for pendurado no madeiro; 14 para que aos gentios viesse a bênção de Abraão em Jesus Cristo, a fim de que nós recebêssemos pela fé a promessa do Espírito." Since we who worship and follow Christ are redeemed from the curse, you cannot lay the curse upon us, nor will Christ lay the curse upon us. God's blessing has come upon us by His grace, through faith in Him.
     
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  14. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I find this situation rather ironic. I am the sort of person who is vigilant and outspoken against the use of icons and images in any way that could be construed as, or that borders on or encourages, worship of the object. Kneeling and praying before an image of Mary or some saint, for example, is something I would not do but would caution against. Yet here I am, more or less, having an accusation of idolatry leveled against me on the basis of crosses!

    I do not worship the cross. I personally do not even like to bend my neck to a cross as a sign of reverence, because I know it is an object not to be worshiped (and I am reluctant to even show particular reverence toward such an object, out of a superabundance of caution). A cross is not God, that's for certain. Nor does any man-made cross represent God; instead it represents the wonderful thing Jesus did for us. I sometimes wear a cross on a chain around my neck as a public proclamation that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and to show that I am not ashamed to be known as a disciple of Jesus. The cross is meant as a witness of God's greatness and of my faith in Him.

    I have never before encountered anyone (Christian or otherwise) who thought that the cross is idolatrous. The Bible doesn't say crosses are idolatrous. The early church writers didn't say it, either. The concept is totally outside the mainstream of Christianity, and this makes me wonder what church denomination our friend Oseas attends; where did he learn such a strange doctrine? I hope he will tell us.
     
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  15. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
  16. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    The satanic "man-made cross" does not represent GOD, of course, as you have said,

    but when you say the satanic "man-made cross represents the wonderful thing Jesus did for us" it's a STRONG DELUSION. The devilsh MAN-MADE CROSS is of the DEVIL and represents ONLY AND ONLY the dreadful, horrend, horrible, monstrous, execrable, hideous CHASTISEMENT of muy Lord JESUS , marked by impiety, by intense cruelty, exactly according to the personal qualities of Satan, the manufaturer of crosses to this day by / through his false, and deceiver, and satanic Christianity.

    Isaiah 53:v.5 to 12

    5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

    8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

    9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

    10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

    11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


    Revelation 1:v.6 to 8
    6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    Amen
     
  17. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    1 John 5:v.19-21

    19 And we know that we are of GOD, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

    20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life.

    21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

    Psalms 135:v.15&18

    15 The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

    18 They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them.
     
  18. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    A couple years ago, someone came on here and was posting that images of Jesus were in violation of the "graven images" commandment. In consideration to him I changed my avatar to the current one.

    Now we have someone saying that crosses are idolatrous. Sorry, I'm not changing my avatar again.... :angry:

    Oseas, you are welcome to your opinion. But you're not gaining any converts to the idea that crosses are evil, idolatrous, or offensive to God, because that concept is not contained in the scriptures you cite. Nor is it contained in the Bible as a whole. If you ever find a scripture (or even some early church writer) that specifically says the use or depiction of crosses is idolatrous, let us know and we'll consider it.

    You never did tell us what sort of church in Brazil teaches this anti-cross doctrine. I think we'd all like to know.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
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  19. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    The world's largest cross, at Effingham IL, USA. Built for God's glory, to remind highway travelers of the One who died and rose from the dead to redeem them from their sins.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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