The Holy Spirit

Discussion in 'Sacred Scripture' started by Rexlion, Aug 29, 2021.

  1. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Inaccurate. The word "Jew" is a shortened form of "Judean," and the Judeans were the descendants of Judah. Judah was one of the twelve sons of Jacob (whom God called "Israel"). If you read the Old Testament, you'll find that two separate kingdoms developed in the Promised Land, one being Israel and the other being Judah, and the kings of each are chronicled. (People today carelessly call all Israelites "Jews" but this is not truly correct.)

    Also, the idea of the Holy Spirit being "born" is not at all supported by Scripture. The Father sent the Holy Spirit to the fledgling Church (the group of believers/followers/disciples of Jesus Christ) at Pentecost, but He (the Holy Spirit) has no body so He had no need of a 'birth'. The Holy Spirit is the one who anointed David as king during Old Testament times, which shows that He could not have been "born" on Pentecost. Furthermore, it is absurd to suppose that the Holy Spirit came only for the Gentiles, since all the believers to whom He came at Pentecost were either Israelites or Jews! Not a single Gentile (that we know of) was in the upper room that day!
     
  2. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    Well said!
     
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  3. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Good post, but I have a few things to say regardings the person of the Holy Spirit of whom I testify according to the Holy Scriptures, but is not being understood by the readers.

    I see that you and other readers are not understanding my intepretation on the person of Holy Spirit. Know that I am not referring to the baptism of the Holy Spirit as is preached by the Pentecostals, and Paul Apostle give us an interesting example, as follow:

    Paul came to Ephesus and finding certain disciples, and he said unto them: Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And Paul said unto them: Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Acts 19:v.1 to 6

    I would like that you and all understand that I have testified of the person of the Holy Spirit (who is not a ghost as is written in English language) not as that that manifest in tongues, I am speaking of the Holy Spirit that is a warrior -Isaiah 63:v.10 and Lamentations 2:v.5- , who has a NAME that no MAN KNEW, but he himself. Meditate on what JESUS spoke about Pentecosts, but of the Paraclete, i.e. an Advocate, and the Comfort : John 16:v.7-15:

    7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send HIM unto you.

    8 And when HE is come, HE will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of Judgment:

    9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

    10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

    11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is Judged.

    12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

    13 Howbeit when HE, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE will guide you into all truth: for HE shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever HE shall hear, that shall HE speak: and HE will shew you things to come.

    14 HE shall glorify me: for HE shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that HE shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


    OK, but what prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. THE WORD IS GOD. GREAT MYSTERY. | Pure Bible Forum (and see www.sinaiticus.net )
     
  4. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    In the current time, for all Gentile they are seen and known as Jewish people.

    Your are mistaken.


    What does the Word of GOD say? The Word is GOD.

    2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

    3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


    5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

    6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

    7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

    8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?


    9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

    10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

    11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

    12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
     
  5. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    A well made point. Valid interpretation of the meaning of scripture is most certainly gifted through the Holy Spirit, and spirit filled disciples of Jesus Christ can immediately detect invalid interpretations of it through the operation of the gifts of Knowledge and Word of Wisdom, (and the opposite 'word of Satan').

    However that is not as far as 'Knowledge' and 'Word' gifts go. (Not the full extent of those gifts). Neither are restricted only to the correct understanding of the written word of God. Many who operated gifts of the Holy Spirit in The Church in early Apostolic times had little or no knowledge of scripture. Many could not even read. Many Gentile believers knew nothing of The Law of Moses or The Prophets or the books of Wisdom, apart from what they understood of the Teaching of Jesus Christ and a profound trust in The living WORD of God, Jesus Christ himself and an obedience to him personally and spiritually. The Holy Spirit imparts only what is learned from Christ, (which of course will include a true understanding of scripture where scripture is involved).

    Many who quote reams of scripture, (devoid of any other explanation), in the hope that they are conveying the Word of God, (as they see it), are not doing so through Holy Spirit inspiration at all. And Holy Spirit filled believers can immediately spot them.
    .
     
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  6. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    TRUE.

    Presumptions and speculations, conjectures, imaginations, opinions, they mean nothing and are good for nothing, that's exactly the way the old serpent , the Devil, likes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2022
  7. Anglican Observer

    Anglican Observer New Member

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    Thank you for the reply. It helps me see better your point of view generally speaking. I did go to the link you provided and have more context for where you are coming from.

    If I may qualify my understanding and use of the Creeds, you and I are in full agreement that Holy Scripture, the Word of God written, is of supreme authority in the Church so much so that all things that must be believed are from the divine and canonical Scriptures. Creeds, broadly speaking, must be judged for their fitness as per their agreement with the Scriptures. I am not Anglican, at least officially in that there is no immediately local parish where I reside, but I find the classic Anglican approach very compelling which is why I am here to learn from and with others coming from this approach, and even others not of this persuasion given this is an open forum. That said, the "Creeds" in this context are the Apostles, Nicene, and Athanasian. These creeds in particular summarize succinctly the catholic faith with regard to the Holy Trinity and the wonders of our redemption and are backed by the most firm testimony of Scripture and for that reason they are useful and I keep them constantly in mind lest I interpret or define anything contrary to them.

    To tie this all back to the topic of the thread, that being the Holy Spirit, thanks and praise to Him who has elucidated the mind of the Church in its reading of Holy Scripture to produce these wonderful compendiums of the faith.
     
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  8. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    The written word of God, the Bible, is not Jesus. Jesus is God and is the Word of God, but He is not the written message of the Bible. Anyone who says that the Bible is God has descended into heresy.
     
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  9. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    There is not one single scripture that says the Holy Spirit was born. Nor is there any scripture saying that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are brothers. As with the issue of the cross, you spout nonsense and cite scriptures that do not prove your point. As the person who began this thread on the subject of the Holy Spirit, I consider your posts here to be disruptive, unhelpful, unwelcome, and dangerously misleading to any future readers who may not be well grounded in the Bible. Your statements are heretical and I question whether they comply with the forum's terms of service, because these unscriptural claims you make (particularly the allegation that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are brothers) could be viewed as "modern errors."
     
  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Yes: But he is trying to explain things in a foreign tongue to him. I doubt he understands English all that well, (he seems not to know that ghost is the 16th century Elizabethan word for what we now call spirit). So should we give him some more slack before labeling him a heretic for derailing the thread? :yes:
    .
     
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  11. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    First, saying that he's promoting heresies is not equal to saying he's a heretic (I never said the latter). Second, it isn't just this thread; this is the same fellow who maintains that the cross emblem is a curse, demonic in its use by churches and Christians. Third, he has demonstrated unwillingness to receive correction or be taught; when shown scriptures that clearly show his error, he continues to vehemently repeat himself and cite inapplicable verses that don't support his claims. Fourth, one can see from his links that he is on some sort of crusade (an unfruitful one) to spread his erroneous concepts across a variety of forums, which amounts to proselytizing (another violation of our terms of service). No, I think the slack should be taken up!
     
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  12. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I would have thought that a heretic was one who promoted heresies. I certainly believe announcing that someone is promoting heresies is a very close corollary of saying they are a heretic. Doing theology in English is always a bit clumsy, but it is even more challenging for those for whom it is a second language.

    The notion of spirit is perhaps better expressed in the German geist which Hegel spoke about in The Phenomenology of the Spirit. I think we have in English done some silly things in the area over time as we have talked in the area, and I know that English is a live language and has undergone considerable development since the time of Chaucer or Cranmer.

    One of the hymns this morning spoke of hobgoblins and foul fiends. English is just not an easy language to pick up and effectively communicate in, so we do need to make space, however that does not mean that we need to simply roll over, just that we need to try and be clear.
     
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  13. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Also I thank you for your reply. English is not my native language, but I have tried my best to write messages according the revealed mysteries in the prophetic Lord's book, the Holy Scriptures, called the Bible, in fact the EXPRESS Word of our Lord GOD. The Word is GOD. As you said, "the Word of God written, is of supreme authority in the Church", it could not be different because the Word is GOD, it is He Himself-John 1.1. The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times-Psalm 12:v.6. By the way, our Almighty GOD has seven spirits-Revelation 4:v.5- , the seven Spirits of GOD sent forth into all the earth.

    Furthermore, according Hebrews 4:v.12-13, the word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart, neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we must give an account.

    Again, yes, "... the Word of God written, is of supreme authority in the Church so much so that all things that must be believed are from the divine and canonical Scriptures," ;
    But on the other hand, the countless Churches and sects of all denominations, without distinctions, of this current time of Apocalypse, they are full even infested of apostasies and idolatries, among other evil things, however, our GOD is a devouring FIRE, aleluiaaa! , so if any man built upon the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; every man's work shall be made manifest: for, this Day, the seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium - Jewish Calendar - How to explain the difference of exactly 240 years in the Jewish calendar? | Pure Bible Forum (and see www.sinaiticus.net ) - the millennium of the righteous Judgment of GOD, the Judgment Seat of Christ - , shall declare it; it shall be revealed by FIRE, and the FIRE shall try every man's work of what sort it is. As we know, our GOD is a devouring fire. Aleluiaaa!!!


    Yes, I agree, but unfortunatelly what JESUS prophesied about this current time, times of the END, is and will be fulfilled LITERALLY , as is written in Matthew 24:v.8-14:
    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

    10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

    11 And many false prophets shall rise (false preachers of the Word of GOD-2 Corinthians 11:v.13-15) , and shall deceive many.

    12 And because INIQUITY shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

    13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be SAVED.

    14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


    In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of lords

    Amen
     
  14. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    The letter kills, but the Spirit - who is the written GOD of Bible, the true GOD - He - the Word - gives life.

    There are three that bear record in heaven (heaven IS NOT SKY, the physical space of Universe, but celestial places IN CHRIST-Ephesians 1:v.3 and Philippians 3:v.20-21), the Father -GOD the Father - , the Word - the Word made flesh-JESUS - , and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.

    Who knows GOD -the Word- as is written in the Bible? JESUS left it very clear, saying: ... No man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any MAN the Father, save the Son, and he TO WHOMSOEVER the Son will reveal Him.


    1 John 5:v.19-21
    19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

    20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

    21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols (from idolatries). Amen.

     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2022
  15. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    The answer I have always heard is that gifts like tongues, prophecy, etc., were intended to validate the apostles’ message, and thus were inherently temporary. That, at least, is the historic Reformed answer. The Lutheran stance of ‘cautious open-mindedness’ toward these things seems more defensible. That being said, I do not believe glossolalia is language, and I’m not aware of any confirmed instances of genuine xenoglossia, so my understanding of the gifts of the Spirit is considerably more restrained even than one would find among the historic Reformed churches.
     
  16. Anglican Observer

    Anglican Observer New Member

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    I shouldn't even be asking this here because it's not the topic of this thread and this forum has a rule about keeping posts on topic, so I will ask the moderators' forgiveness, and yours too if I seem too frank, but would you kindly state what your business here is in clear and concise terms without all sorts of Bible quotes and links to other forums? I would think that there should be civil dialogue between us even if we disagree, but even where there is supposed agreement instead I find everything said is used by you as a springboard to spread some sort of message, and a peculiar one at that. I tried to dialogue but instead I got a bizarre preachy message. God has seven spirits? The topic of this thread is the Holy Spirit and you were posting previously about your understanding on the Holy Spirit and now you claim God has seven spirits. That is just confusing and unorthodox. And please note, I politely decline in advance to hear any elaboration on this doctrine of seven spirits. If you are disinclined to answer my initial question above, then would you please at the very least render us the courtesy of abiding by the forum's terms of service, engage in dialogue and stop crusading?
     
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  17. Anglican Observer

    Anglican Observer New Member

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    So now I get to backtrack a bit. You quoted Rev. 4:5 and I now believe I misread what you were trying to say and implied something you probably didn't intend in the middle of my reaction. I retract that part of the post and apologize.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
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  18. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    What does the Word of GOD say? After all, the Word is GOD, so if you compare the things you have heard with/by the Word of GOD, you will discern if what you have heard is confirmed by the Word of GOD or not, in other words, if the theory or interpretation you heard is true or not.

    What you heard is not confimed by the Word of GOD, quite the opposite, it is a stumblingblock because it is from human perspective, not from GOD's perspective.

    Remember, many time after the Pentcosts, Peter was sent to the house of the centurion Cornélius, and there he testified how GOD anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with Power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the Devil, for GOD was with Him, and that JESUS was ordained of GOD to be the Judge of quick and dead. And the prophets give witness, that through the name of JESUS whosoever believed in Him shall receive remission of sins.
    And while Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word and all them spoke with tongues, magnifying GOD, and they were Gentiles. Upon the Gentiles also were poured out the gift of the Holy Sspirit, and the people of circuncision were astonished.


    JESUS, after His resirrection, said (I only confirm what He said) - Mark 16:v.17-20:
    17 And these signs shall follow them that BELIEVE; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall SPEAK WITH NEW TONGUES;

    18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

    19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

    20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
     
  19. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    I have said on several occasions on this Forum (including in the very post you quoted) that I do not believe the Reformed approach to “spiritual gifts” does adequate justice to the biblical statements on the subject. The Lutheran approach of what I have termed “cautious open-mindedness” seems more reasonable.

    That being said, scientific study of both glossolalia and xenoglossia raise a number of credible doubts concerning their efficacy. Confessionally speaking, it is the Sacraments, not “spiritual gifts”, that provide objective assurance of the work of the Spirit. It is because of this sharp departure from historic Christian teaching that I harbor profound suspicion and distrust of the charismatic movement, and cannot in good conscience participate in a congregation that tolerates it.
     
  20. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Regardidngs the birth of the person of Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the Advocate, and the Comforter, I left it very clear throught Scriptures and throughout my posts 27 and 39. But if you do not interpret the Scriptures have mentioned by the Holy Spirit, how could you understand my posts? See, what matters is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater - 1 John 5:v.9.

    JESUS said: John 7:v.16-18
    16 ... My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.


    17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

    18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.