The Holy Spirit

Discussion in 'Sacred Scripture' started by Rexlion, Aug 29, 2021.

  1. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Yes, you are starting to understand my interpretation of Genesis 1:v.16. I meant in my posts that the GREATER Light is not the Sun, and the LESSER Light is not the moon. Simple.

    What I have preached is what is LITERALLY written in the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD: GREATER Light is greater Light, Lesser Light is lesser light, these two Lights have nothing to do with the cosmic Sun and Moon, if it was, so it would have been written "Sun" and not GREATER Light; And Moon, not LESSER Light.

    Botolph said in his post #169 that the Greater Light and the Lesser Light -Genesis 1:v.16- in the fourth Day- "as the written predominant cosmology would have been terra-centricity rather than helio-centricity which we generally all accept today". Sorry, linking the greater Light and the lesser Light to the sun and moon is a materialist , ridiculous, and devilish interpretation of the Word of GOD. The letter kills, as is showed in Genesis 3. Terrible.

    Speaking of analogy, Sarah and Agar, for example, are an allegory of the two Concerts. Galatians 4:v.21-26
    21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

    22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

    23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

    24 Which things are an ALLEGORY: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
    25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

    26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
     
  2. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:v.14
    Presumptions and speculations, conjectures, imaginations, opinions, they mean nothing and are good for nothing, that's exactly the way the Devil likes, your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from God's perspective.
     
  3. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    You’re like the Herschel Walker of theology, I swear. There is no such thing as “God’s perspective.” The Scriptures were written for human beings, to be understood and interpreted by human beings, from an exclusively human perspective. You are the only one here engaging in “presumptions and speculations”. The rest of us here are simply reading what these texts actually say.

    You also still haven’t provided an exegetical basis for your interpretation. No one reads the U.S. Constitution thinking it’s all actually code for a Martian cookbook. The same trust in the text as we actually have it should be accorded to the Bible as well.

    (BTW, there’s no “v.” when citing a verse. It’s just “Genesis 1:6”, “Isaiah 53:1”, etc.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
  4. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Matthew 16:24-28 - Complete Jewish Bible
    21 From that time on, Yeshua began making it clear to his talmidim that he had to go to Yerushalayim and endure much suffering at the hands of the elders, the head cohanim and the Torah-teachers; and that he had to be put to death; but that on the third day, he had to be raised to life.

    22 Kefa took him aside and began rebuking him, “Heaven be merciful, Lord! By no means will this happen to you!” 23 But Yeshua turned his back on Kefa, saying, “Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle in my path, because your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective!”
     
  5. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    Relevance?
     
  6. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Actually I perceive that he is reading and understanding the texts in the same way that many Christians in the church have done ever since the church began. He is seeing alegorical interpretations within the literal words of the text. This is a recognised method of interpretation of textual meaning which has regularly been applied to MANY biblical verses possibly referring to The Messiah but also capable of being read quite literally as referring to something else entirely. He may be taking this methodology too far, (in the minds of literalists), but the same could be said of Christ himself who interpreted "The stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone. This is the Lord's doing" as being a reference to HIMSELF, not just a comment on building practices in the time of David. Similarly this passage has little to do with the gates of Jerusalem back in the late bronze age, (they didn't have 'heads'): Though these were the ones David was referring to at the time he wrote them.

    Lift up your heads, O gates! and be lifted up, O ancient doors! that the King of glory may come in.
    Who is this King of Glory? The LOrd of hosts, HE is the King of Glory.

    The text is much more accurately understood as being about the entry of Christ into heaven at The Ascension or even Christ's entry by force into Hell to release the captives there.

    I confess, I am not very interested in whether the gates of Jerusalem back in the late bronze age had heads or not. I find Christ's entry into Hell and his release of those held captive very interesting indeed. Maybe THAT perspective is what Oseas calls "Gods" perspective, not as an actual attribute of God but rather as the perspective God would prefer us to have when interpreting what's written in the scriptures.
    .
     
  7. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    Ok, but there are rules that govern allegorical interpretation. An allegory is just an extended simile, and a simile is an implied analogy. So to a Jewish interpreter the "greater and lesser lights" might be reminiscent of the respective places of the Torah and the Prophets. To a Christian interpreter, there might be an analogy between the "greater light" and the Gospel, and between the "lesser light" and the Law. Or they could stand for the Temple and the Messiah. Or Michael and Gabriel. Or Moses and Elijah. The possibilities are endless: any analogy is potentially the telos of an allegorical reading. But, in order for such an interpretation to be acceptable (to be taught in the Church), it must:
    1. Not contradict the plain sense of the passage whose meaning it is building upon;
    2. Not contradict the plain sense of any other passage in the canon;
    3. Be explicitly taught, i.e., according to the plain sense, somewhere else in the canon.
    If these 3 rules are not observed (and the above is not intended as an exhaustive list), not just this text, but any text, could be made to mean anything anyone wanted it to mean. In this case, nowhere in the biblical canon, that I am aware of, is any analogy made between the Holy Spirit and the moon, but more importantly, nowhere is it taught that the Spirit is lesser in any quality, dignity, or power than the Son or the Father. The Creeds specifically and unambiguously affirm the perfect equality of the divine Persons in every respect. One cannot justifiably interpret this passage, not even allegorically, the way Oseas has here.
     
  8. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    For me, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, not the words of natural man trying to replace the the Word of GOD. The difference is imeasurabble and easy to discern for whom knows the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, understand? Great mystery.
     
  9. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Thankyou brother Tiffy by your excelent interpretation, your wise words enlightened deeply the degree to which is related my posts concerning the Word of GOD. Unfortunately, brother Invictus does not have the same understanding, his spirit carries him to trample under feet all messages and prevents him from having the same discernment and understanding as you have them.

    For me, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, not the words of natural man trying to replace the the Word of GOD. The difference is imeasurabble and easy to discern for whom knows the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, and is self-executing. Great mystery.

    As you know, GOD said: He that hath my Word, let him speak my Word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord. Jeremiah 23:v.28

    If you look well, first GOD tested Jeremiah if he was seeing well and discerning the importance of not preaching his own words, his opinions and thoughts, to the people of Israel, being Jeremiah an Israelite citizen. So GOD asked to Jeremiah: "Jeremiah, what sees you? And Jeremiah said, I see a rod of an almond tree". Then said the Lord unto Jeremiah, You has well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it."
    QUESTION: Can you see the wonderful mystery in this dialogue between GOD and Jeremiah? Why Did GOD state to Jeremiah that he saw well? Yes, why? After all there were 12 rods in Israel. What was the difference between the rod of almond tree and the other 11 rods of Israel? It is because the rod of almond was the only rod in Israel which was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds, and was the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi . Numbers 17:1 to 13 reveal and explain better the why of the difference.

    In Christ JESUS, King of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of lords
     
  10. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    You seem not to realize that when you put forward unsupported interpretations of biblical passages, it is in fact you that is "replacing the Word of God", as you put it.
     
  11. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    How well did Jesus Christ keep to these rules, in your opinion, when he declared himself the stone that the builders rejected? Or a gate, or the way or the truth, or a vine? Or when someone else declared him perhaps the "SUN" of righteousness, rising with healing in his wings.
    .
     
  12. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    Given that these rules originated in Judaism, I would not expect him to have deviated from them in any meaningful way, and I have not seen a convincing example where he did so. Those rules of interpretation are kind of basic and self-evident anyway, if words have any meaning at all.
     
  13. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Everything you said above is from a human perspective, not from God's perspective., and your rules have nothing to do with the Holy Spirit, but evil spirits of common men. Indeed, it is a stumbling block that you stumbled upon.

    What does the Word of GOD say? The Word is GOD, understand? And is self-executing. As is written, he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from above is above all - John 3:31

    GOD said: He that hath my Word, let him speak my Word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord- Jeremiah 23:28. The Word is GOD, and is self-executing. Fear Him. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of GOD abideth on him. He whom GOD hath sent speaketh the words of GOD: for GOD giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him -John 3: 34 and 36.
     
  14. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Oh no, your judgments are bad and unfair, they are according to your spirit.
    Regardings Genesis 1:v.16, what I have preached is that Greater Light is Greater Light, not the Sun, and LESSER Light is lesser light, not the moon. GOD did not created Sun and Moon or these two celestial bodies about 4000 years after Adam-fourth Day-, exactly when GOD sent His Son-John 5:v.17, take a look- , i.e. when He sent my Lord JESUS Christ, my older brother.

    What I have preached is what is LITERALLY written in the Word of GOD-Genesis 1:v.16. The Word is GOD: GREATER Light is greater Light, Lesser Light is lesser light, these two Lights or Luminaries have nothing to do with the cosmic Sun and Moon, if it was, so it would have been written "Sun" in the Scriptures, and not GREATER Light; And Moon, and not LESSER Light. By the way, the age of the Sun and Moon does not fit in Genesis 1:16, by no manner of means.
     
  15. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    What is the meaning of your above words?
     
  16. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Having read Oseas's reply immediately following yours I tend to agree with you. There is a limit to how allegory can be drawn from ancient writings and his insults to your spirit are unwarranted. Jesus certainly saw more in scripture than anyone else and much of what he saw was exegetically expounded allegorically rather than literally interpreted. The spirit of prophesy is not limited to writing down only bold statements and specific predictions of future events couched in literally discernible, factually checkable sentences. Oseas is right in suggesting it is a mistake to reduce the Bible to merely an accurate historical record of facts. To do so reduces the reader's comprehension of the type of truth God intends to convey through it.
    .
     
  17. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Praised be our Lord GOD. I was greatly amazed, astonished and perplexed, by the wisdom you have expressed in your message above, according the Spirit of Christ. Why?
    1st - Colossians 2:3-4 and 8-10: -
    3 - In JESUS are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
    4 - This I say, lest any MAN should beguile you with enticing words.
    8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    9 - For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    10 - And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:

    2nd - Revelation 19:v.10
    10 The testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy-
    and Romans 8:v.9-10: -
    9 - Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of GOD dwell in you.
    10 - And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    and John 5:v.39-40
    39 - Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have ETERNAL life: and they are they which testify of me. (Compare with 1John 5:7)
    40 And will ye not come to me, that ye might have life?
    John 7:38
    38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (The Word is GOD and self-executing. -Take a look in Isaiah 55:v.11)

    In my vision, there is not word more powerful than the Word of GOD. the Word is GOD, great mystery. Hebrews 4:v.12-13:-
    12
    For the Word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
    13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we must render an account.

    Blessings
     
  18. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Get ready

    The Holy Spirit, the Ancient of Days, (my Lord JESUS was before the world existed-John 17:5), is who will prepare the Church to meet the Bridegroom, as was revealed - Revelation 19:7-9:

    7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.

    8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

    9 And he (the Lord's angel/archangel) saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of GOD.

    Get ready, the Word is GOD and selfexecuting.

    The next prophesied Event, as is above written, will happen hereafter, from now on, but after the Judgment of Babylon:

    https://purebibleforum.com/index.ph...iage-only-after-the-judgment-of-babylon.2929/
    .
     
  19. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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