Pope wants to re-word the Lord's Prayer??

Discussion in 'Non-Anglican Discussion' started by Lowly Layman, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. peter

    peter Active Member

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    That is how it is given in the King James Version. That's good enough for me.
     
  2. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    The phrase is not a request alone, but a statement of faith and a request combined. (Request)= Lead us Heavenly Father. (Statement of faith)= Not INTO temptation, BUT. (Statement of faith)= Deliver us from evil.

    God leads no one into temptation, nor tempts anyone: The English vocabulary and syntax of this old Elizabethan language is difficult to explain to the users of modern English.

    Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one; but each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. James 1:13-14.

    Similarly the text quoted in the Opening post can be easily misunderstood by today's English reader or hearer.

    "It is a great evil to want anything that is good". Very confusing to the modern mind, since the very sentence preceding it states, "So that we here Pray for every thing that is or can be good for us:"

    Of course the accurate modern rendition should be: "It is a great evil to lack, (or want for), anything that is good".

    Thus the need for clarity in liturgy, understandable to the average English speaker in today's church.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
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  3. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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    If I remember correctly, in the Lamsa translation of the Peshitta Bible, he used "let us not enter into temptation."
     
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  4. Fidei Defensor

    Fidei Defensor Active Member

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    From what I understand Francis wants to change “lead us not into temptation,” to “keep us from the testimg,” (TNJB). Francis wants to change it because in modern tongues “lead us not into temptation” sounds like God can lead you into temptation when He does not, “When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone.” (James 1:13). What “lead us not into temptation,” meant back in King James times was “keep us from temptation or the tempter” hence the better trans “keep us from the testing” (TNJB 1963-68).

    Words change. Take for instance the word begotten which once meant “to come forth from or be sent from” but now means “beget, birth and create.” The same has happened to the word may, “Son and whoseover believes in Him may have eternal life,” (John 3:16 TNJb and NRSV). May in this case was “may have, as in you may have it; certainty” but mat now mwans “well you may or may not get it.” Hence why may is now replaced witj wjat if once meant, “you shall have eternal life.”