Ok, I'm tired of this!!

Discussion in 'Family, Relationships, and Single Life' started by Gio, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Active Member Anglican

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    It is extremely telling that confidently casting aside the ancients (in what Lewis called chronological snobbery) and substitute one's own authority leads just glibly missing the obvious context. It is not a mystery what terms like arsenoskoites meant to Paul or his recipients (which is why the Church has interpreted them in such a consistent manner until modernism crept in). This is because Paul was a Hellenized Jew and a rabbi writing to a group where the core original members were largely Hellenized Jews or Gentile converts to Judaism. They would have immediately picked up on Paul's use of the Septuagint.

    Tiffy if you are not going to actually stick to the topic but instead make the discussion about your own personal dislike of Stalwart, there doesn't seem to be much utility.
     
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  2. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    I think I have stuck to the topic fairly closely. I certainly harbour no personal animosity to Stalwart. Disagreement with his theological opinion is not animosity and dislike should not come into it, we should all be above letting that get in the way of reaching understanding of the truth.

    The four Gospels contain 1,854 red letter verses with the spoken words of Jesus. Of these 341 are just comments, casual conversation etc. with his disciples or his audience at the time, not actual teaching. This leaves 1,513 verses to be analyzed. The Gospel of Matthew has the most red letter teaching verses both in numbers (1,071) and percentage (55%) of the total material in the book.

    The top ten subjects addressed in the teaching of Jesus are these: eternal life and salvation (46 vv; 3.04%); prayer (48 vv.; 3.17%); persecution (54 vv; 3.57%); judgment and hell (61 vv; 4.03%); predictions, especially about his disciples and himself (67 vv; 4.43%); hypocrisy (73 vv; 4.82%); second coming (79 vv; 5.22%); fate of Jerusalem and the evil generation that rejected Jesus (119 vv; 7.87%); Jesus’ identity and mission (129 vv; 8.53%). The subject that Jesus spoke about most was the kingdom (159 vv; 10.51%)—its nature, entrance requirements and nearness. There are sixteen verses which have the primary teaching emphasis on marriage and divorce (1.06%), and forty-three verses (2.84%) that address treasure and greed.

    And apparently nothing whatever on same sex relationships (per se), gender reassignment or confused sexual identity or sodomy as such, but three key verses on Child Abuse, presumably by male adults, (presumably in positions of authority, and possibly implying 'leading astray sexually, as well as more general abuse'). 0.2%

    If we have to think about unpleasant human activities and sexual perversion, we should keep that in mind, particularly with a male only priesthood.

    Since it seems Stalwart has declared 'War' on me, I will leave you both with this good Apostolic advice regarding subjects of this kind.

    Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

    So, OK I'm tired of this too now, and so I am going to follow St Paul's sensible advice and refrain from making any further comments in this thread, and think of better things.
     
  3. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Active Member Anglican

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    It seems that most of your posts have devolved into whether Stalwart has "judged" you and have made it personal.

    The vast majority of the rest of your post has very little bearing on the subject. Are we supposed to believe that if Christ did not directly discuss it, then it is not Scripture? This would be to deny the canonicity of the OT (Marcionism) or the rest of the NT. If Christ did radically alter traditional Judeo-Christian sexual ethics, it absolutely would've been noted. Considering He aligned Himself with the Shmmai faction in the Hillel-Shmmai divorce dispute (Hillel being more liberal and affirming of divorce, Shmmai being more conservative), there seems absolutely zero basis for any sexual libertinism in Christ's teaching and seems to be arguing for omission. Instead you see Him upholding the moral code of the Law, a moral teaching preserved and expounded upon by the Apostle Paul. It is only in the last century that anyone has pretended it means anything than the face value teaching.
     
  4. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Member

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    I just glossed over this whole thread and didn't see a "...I'm gay and this is my experience..." post, so here is mine.
    It shall be brief.
    I am gay and this is my experience. I am/was is more like it a gay catholic in the Archdiocese of New York. Our seminary is Dunwoodie. The seminary and diocese are a festering cesspool of homosexual misconduct ( I am not referring to pedophilia/ephebophilia here). My problem is that no one is honest about it. I joined TEC (officially this Easter 2019) where you may have a gay priest BUT he tells you "hey! I'm a gay priest! here is my partner bob!". In the Roman church the priest that led my Courage group (Catholic apostolate for gay men to lead a celibate life) was just accused of improprieties with young men, Showering them down. powdering them and then watching them do calisthenics. the priest who sent me to Courage is in a life long committed relationship with another priest. this particular priest when hearing me confess to some sexual sins one day said, and I quote "One day God will cease to be merciful, and instead be just!!" The Hypocrisy!!!! The then-Bishop, Now-Cardinal (whom I have just decided not to name) who confirmed me in the faith is a homosexual involved in an homosexual S&M cabal at Dunwoodie where he is known as "The Master"

    I joined TEC so I could be chaste and celibate in peace!!!! I pretty much think everyone else should be able to live there lives in peace provided others aren't getting hurt. And I am not going to ram my morality and religious beliefs down other's throats.
     
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  5. BibleHoarder

    BibleHoarder Active Member

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    I hear you. Even the ones who are trying to live a 'godly life' within a homosexual context rarely ever produce the kind of fruit or have the fullness of grace that normal God-given relationships have. There is something defective at the heart of homosexuality that prohibits that from blooming. As a person who struggles with the same feelings as you do, when I was trying to justify it biblically with a lot of the same arguments the liberals use nowadays, I always saw, in spite of never having been in a relationship in my life and still being a virgin, the inherent deficiencies of the practice, especially coming from those involved in it and their advocates.

    "For into a malicious soul wisdom shall not enter; nor dwell in the body that is subject unto sin.
    For the holy spirit of discipline will flee deceit, and remove from thoughts that are without understanding, and will not abide when unrighteousness cometh in."

    (Wisdom of Solomon, 1:4-5)
     
  6. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Member

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    God has truly blessed you by getting through this in this sex soaked world and maintaining your virginity!!! I unfortunately have a lot more battle scars. What I love about TEC is the peace, love and acceptance I have from others so I can heal from these scars that have accrued over decades and the freedom to be left in peace while I do penance (under the eye of a spiritual director).
     
  7. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    In my experience TEC spiritual advisors are far more likely to reduce and remove one's virginity than to celebrate it, especially in LGBT counseling

    They do not view LGBT attraction as a cross to bear, and some of them even celebrate LGBT lifestyles rather than working to diminish them as the old Episcopal Church had always done
     
  8. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Member

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    I agree with you to a large degree. But I have been blessed to find TEC Priests who understand and respect my decision to live a chaste celibate lifestyle. I had to leave Rome partly because the outright hatred of homosexuals was creating an exquisitely toxic environment where I couldn’t practice my faith. And yes, there were other reasons I left Rome.
     

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