No absolution in communion service

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by David, Sep 17, 2023.

  1. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    3,138
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    Probably true, but I was just trying to delineate between the two distinct 'halves' of the communion service. The Ministry of the word, and the ministry of the sacrament. The principle being the word always precedes the sacrament, since it is by hearing the gospel with faith that we receive the Spirit.

    A Lay minister may legitimately lead the service right up until the prayer of consecration, (albeit with some modifications to the liturgy used).
    .
     
  2. David

    David Member Anglican

    Posts:
    40
    Likes Received:
    16
    Country:
    England
    Religion:
    Anglican
    @Stalwart good afternoon Sir. What are your thoughts on this discussion if you would kindly as I note your comments on absolution in my previous questions on the forum.

    God bless.

    David.
     
  3. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,238
    Likes Received:
    2,492
    Country:
    Australia
    Religion:
    Anglican
    My view is that properly the ordained clergyperson should have pronounced the absolution, and failing that the appropriate Lay person should have read the collect for the 21st Sunday after Trinity. That would represent good form for a Church that delights to do everything properly and in good order.

    It is not intended that the liturgy be simply a hymn and reading sandwich. It has a proper shape and form and is designed for us to arrive at that point where we might lift our hearts to the Lord.

    So we may ask what is the purpose of the absolution? I would have thought it was to assure the faithful or the promises of Christ secured in his death and resurrection. However, I am not arguing that forgiveness depends on the correct form of the words, but I would argue that those assembling the liturgy for the day should be mindful to include some such form of the words, rather than simply taking forgiveness for granted.

    NB: Liturgy is a Greek composite of laos and ergos meaning the people's work. As such in the setting, I would regard the readings and sermon as part of the liturgy.
     
    Tiffy and David like this.
  4. David

    David Member Anglican

    Posts:
    40
    Likes Received:
    16
    Country:
    England
    Religion:
    Anglican
    Totally agree
     
  5. PDL

    PDL Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    828
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Religion:
    Church of England
    That is not evidence it is correct. It is simply evidence you have been doing something for more than twenty years.
     
    David likes this.
  6. PDL

    PDL Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    828
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Religion:
    Church of England
    I'm going to assume when using the adjective Anglican you're referring to the C of E.

    Can you please cite a reference to anything that says a lay person may preside at the Eucharist during the first part of the service?
     
    David likes this.
  7. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    3,138
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    I am not an expert in eccliastical law. I have for 20 years however been licenced by various Bishops to preside over any service of the word in the Church of England which might take place in his, her or their diocese. I have not received any objection whatever from any of my licensing bishops to me leading the service right up until the prayer of consecration, which requires an ordained minister, which I am, by choice, not.

    Perhaps you could help us all to clear up this matter by doing the necessary research into the ecclesiastical legality of it all, if legalism seems to be of parmount importance. I'm prepared to take my Bishop's word on it and place responsibility for the ecclesiastical legality of my actions upon him or her. I'm passing the buck. :laugh:

    AS to whether or not I think I should be doing it - I think after 20 years of doing it, in the Church of England, I should know what I have been licensed to do by now, don't you?

    I feel that many 'wanna be more' Anglo-(Roman)Catholic style types in the C of E would want to impose Roman Catholic ecclesiastical law on us in the C of E and some are even already thinking they apply.
    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2023
  8. David

    David Member Anglican

    Posts:
    40
    Likes Received:
    16
    Country:
    England
    Religion:
    Anglican
    Afternoon.

    So when you get to the confession and where normally the Priestly absolution takes place...what do you say in your services at that point? Do you just skip the absolution? If so this mirrors the service I attended.

    Cheers

    David.
     
  9. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    3,138
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    No. I never skip the absolution. I use the words that I am instructed by C of E authority, as a-non ordained Minister to use.

    The same words authorised from either The Book of Common Prayer, for whatever service I am leading, be it Holy Communion, Matins, Evensong, Morning Prayer etc. OR Common Worship. Both are duly authorised liturgies. But I am constrained to use 'us' instead of 'you' and 'our' instead of 'your'.

    What might be causing confusion here is perhaps the wording of the rubrick in the BCP introducing the Absolution.

    Then shall the Priest (or the Bishop, being present,) stand up, and turning himself to the people, pronounce this Absolution.

    It has never been, to my knowledge re-printed, when the Church of England first licensed Lay Readers to conduct services of the word. (We are not just lay persons, we are trained, licensed and annointed by the Bishop of a diocese to lead, preach, teach and administer in a particular church, but are licensed to the diocese, not the particular church). Local Lay Readers are now called Licensed Lay Ministers and there are other Lay Ministers in the Church of England, with PTO or Permission to Officiate apparently, but I don't yet know the extent of their 'permission'. I intend to find out, though this is an innovation that has happened long since I became a Reader Emeritas after retirement some 12 years ago.

    Matins and Evensong and Morning Prayer I could conduct alone. Communion services I act as a member of the worship team. I could for instance bear the Chalice or distribute the wafers along with the Priest. I could also Deacon for him if required to do so and I could pronounce a blessing provided again, I use the words 'us' and 'our' because I am speaking as a representative and member of the congregation, not as a representative of God, as would be an ordained person.
    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2023
    David likes this.
  10. PDL

    PDL Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    828
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Religion:
    Church of England
    An incorrect over generalisation often thrown at Catholic Anglicans.
     
    Botolph and David like this.