Mini-Golf in Rochester Cathedral

Discussion in 'Anglican and Christian News' started by Botolph, Jul 31, 2019.

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  1. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-49162116

    upload_2019-8-1_12-4-10.png

    Am I off the beaten track to think that this is a strange use of sacred space? I notice that this image was captioned 'fairway to heaven'. I can't help but feel that we have dropped the r and inserted an l in pray.
     
  2. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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  3. Oliver Sanderson

    Oliver Sanderson Member

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    Probably sums up the COE in 2019.

    'The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men'
     
  4. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Is this how the sacred things are made to be less sacred? Because this is a sacred thing which has become less sacred...
     
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  5. Religious Fanatic

    Religious Fanatic Active Member

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    I enjoy mini-golf and don't feel that wholesome entertainment which conforms to Christian morals is bad, since God often gives us these leisurely opportunities to rejuvenate and energize our minds, and so long as we don't spoil ourselves with them to completely avoid our spiritual labors, it is all well and good and should be accepted wholeheartedly. However, I honestly feel the event would've been more interesting if the course had been based on facts about the history of the CoE, so as to teach people something in a creative way. Unfortunately, it looks like they passed on that opportunity.
     
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  6. Anglo-cracker

    Anglo-cracker Member Anglican

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    Absurd
     
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  7. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I have a vision of the Dean rising to the lectern and addressing the congregation Let us Play

    In terms of what we look for from our cathedrals and places of worship I feel this is sub par.
     
  8. Rexlion

    Rexlion Active Member

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    More context is needed. Did the church sell the building to someone who's turned it into this game venue? Or are they still holding services in this place? If the former, well, too bad but it's no longer a church. If the latter... yikes!!
     
  9. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    The Op links to the BBC article which I think explains the Sitz im Leben.

    It is a Norman Cathedral, going back to the Augustinian mission. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochester_Cathedral The Wikipedia article is quite informative.
     
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  10. Rexlion

    Rexlion Active Member

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    Holy cow! The whole thing is daffy! :sick: Maybe next they'll decide to play games in the crypt... like Clue, or perhaps Dungeons & Dragons! I'm getting a mental picture of Jesus chasing the money-changers out of the temple with a whip.......
     
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  11. Liturgyworks

    Liturgyworks Active Member

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    As evil as this is, it pales in comparison to the Halloween Parties held at the Episcopalian cathedral St. John the Divine in New York City. I firmly believe that when we succeed in taking back the Episcopal Church, if this Cathedral still stands, and I hope it does, due to the piety of those who founded it, the Halloween Parties and the crucifix depicting our Lord as a woman will require the entire Cathedral to be exorcised and reconsecrated.

    It is worth considering that in the Assyrian Church of the East, that minor accidents such as the minister inadvertantly pouring olive oil instead of wine into the chalice during the Eucharist, or if his sandal falls off, for example, while he is on a ladder in the altar repairing something, and his bare foot touches the floor of the altar (the entire precinct behind the curtain including the Holy Table, separated from the nave by steps and in ancient times, a Bema such as those in Synagogues), the altar becomes deconsecrated and the priest must send for a bishop. In the interim he can still serve the liturgy however, because there is a wooden tablet (that the other Syriac churches, in their Western accent, call a Tablitho; I forget the proper Assyrian term for it), which is something akin to a corporal, and which is wrapped or covered by cloth, is also an altar and is much less fragile than the main altar.

    But if an Assyrian priest can inadvertantly desecrate his altar if his shoe falls off pr if he makes one of several mishaps while preparing the Eucharist, and if we assume the sacred spaces of God ought to be treated with the utmost reverence, and when we consider the interesting degree of commonality specifically between the Assyrians and Anglicans (moreso I think than OO and EO commonality; for example, an Assyrian parish would communicate any baptized Christian who believed the bread and wine were truly the body and blood of our Lord), how much more might be required at Rochester? Or in New York City?

    Kyrie eleison.
     
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  12. Liturgyworks

    Liturgyworks Active Member

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    There is no scenario where mini golf is acceptable in the nave of a cathedral. There are some Orthodox denominations where the casket of a deceased layman does not enter the nave but remains in the Narthex, and where many services of lesser importance happen in the Narthex. The nave is like the Holies in the Temple, and the Apse is like the Holy of Holies, hence the Anglican rood screen, chancel screen and choir screen, the Eastern iconostasis, the Roman altar rail, and the Oriental curtain.
     
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  13. Leacock

    Leacock New Member

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    What can you expect when all the cathedrals have crypt cafes?
     
  14. Liturgyworks

    Liturgyworks Active Member

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    I saw this first on my first trip to London in 2000 at age 14 and was horrified. It was one of the City churches. My mother wanted to go there for what I thought was the rather morbid experience of making a rubbing of the tomb of a knight, and this was the church near St. Paul’s which offered that. St. Stephen Walbrook perhaps? I did not see the actual nave, which is how I tell City churches apart (since St. Sepulchre-without-Newgate looks nothing like St. Magnus the Martyr or St. Mary le Bow).
     
  15. Juliana

    Juliana Member Anglican

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  16. Oliver Sanderson

    Oliver Sanderson Member

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  17. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice if I could unsee this stuff. There is a sense in which we are called to sanctify the secular, and a grave risk that be might seculariuse the sacred.

    And I read 'The Very Reverend Jane Hedges, Dean of Norwich Cathedral, said the installation was "certainly not a gimmick".' I wonder what would be required for it to be a gimmick?
     
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  18. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    In medievil times these barriers were actually the means of separating the activities in the nave from the activities in the chancel and santuary. The nave had no seats or pews, was strewed with straw and was a market place where business was conducted and livestock roamed freely.

    I don't think Rochester has yet got back there. I think the issue here is more one of how the space provided by our cathedrals should be used to benefit the people generally. The raison d'être for a catheral is to impart faith in Christ to the people and to do it effectively. The question then is not whether the temporary mini golf course is 'sacred' enough to be permitted in the cathedral. The question is merely one of whether it effectively transmits the message of salvation which Christ compells his disciples to present to the world by any appropriate means possible. A silent empty space, encouraging contemplation might more effectively communicate the 'peace of God', but if there is no one there to experience it, it can hardly be classed as being 'effective' as a means of communication. An attempt to communicate God's blessings to the people which has no Gospel content and no message of salvation cannot be considered an 'effective' use of the space for the purpose Christ intends, either.

    As to all the superstitious nonsense attached to 'sanctity', sacred spaces and rules and regulations concerning altars, rituals, sandles portable alters and such, that is just 'superstitious religion' and nothing whatever to do with the message we are compelled to preach in the name of Jesus Christ.

    If anyone who has been involved in any of these summer cathedral activities can demonstrate to me that they have gained a greater understanding of God's grace and His generous forgiveness as expressed in the life, death, resurrection and reign in glory, of Jesus Christ, then I for one would be entirely supportive of these sort of 'attractions'. Jesus attracted crowds to himself merely out of curiosity and entertainment. They then listened to the Word of Life only once they got within earshot.
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    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  19. Shaun

    Shaun Member Anglican

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    The Cathedral is just around the corner from me. A quarter of a mile away.

    I don't really have much to say on this, I am still early on in my Christian journey. Very unversed.

    I did, however, read once, that,

    ""Addressing the end-time church, Jesus said: "You say, 'I am rich...and have need of nothing' - and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked - I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore...repent" Revelation (vv.17-19 NKJV)

    Those are strong words! Why would Christ say that to us?
    1) Instead of believing in God for New Testament results, we say God doesn't do miracles anymore.
    2) We've tolerated division in the name of denominational loyalty.
    3) We've taught that Christianity is mainly about avoiding things. As a result we've lost our joy, because intimacy with Christ cannot be achieved through performance.
    4) Many of our leaders have stopped modelling servant-hood and forgotten that Jesus washed feet and rode on a donkey.
    5) Instead of using our financial blessings to reach the world for Christ and care for the poor, we're acquiring and splurging on ourselves.
    6) We get upset when somebody uses contemporary methods to reach the younger generation. Instead of engaging the culture we're hiding from it.
    7) Instead of "occupy till I come", we'd rather fly away. We read rapture novels when we should be praying for those loving on the verge of martyrdom. Why can't we have their kind of faith? We can - if we're willing to pay the price. ""
     
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  20. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    I wish we could put multiple likes on posts!
    .
     
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