Justification of Abuse

Discussion in 'Non-Anglican Discussion' started by Religious Fanatic, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. Religious Fanatic

    Religious Fanatic Well-Known Member

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    I want to know if you think it's right for people to refuse pity for suicide victims, due to the idea that "God never gives us more than we can handle" and that they still had free will?

    I heard a Catholic bishop say he didn't feel sorry for the abuse victims of the clergy who took their life, for this reason. I said that sounded ironic because they accuse Protestants of teaching a doctrine of salvation that they claim makes them lax about sin, but then theoretically this means to someone who believes in that, that degrees of treatment make no difference to a person's well-being or relationship with God and we have no responsibility. He boasted about pedophiles getting easy forgiveness and penance as evidence that they are actually good people, and said the victims were the real enemies, because, as he said, "Why don't they forgive for once?"

    I find this demonic and calloused. What do you think of this?
     
  2. Brigid

    Brigid Active Member Anglican

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    In order that we be forgiven by God, we are to forgive those who trespass against us and we are taught by Our Lord to treat others as we would like them to treat us. Therefore, I will not judge those people harshly, however I wouldn't follow in their behavior!
     
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  3. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    One would hope though that, while not judging, (i.e. condemning) those people harshly, there would be no laxity in doing everything possible to stop the perpetrators and report them to the relevant authorities so their wickedness can be restrained and any repetition of their criminal deeds prevented.

    To not do so, whenever possible, would make us a guilty accessory to their crimes.

    We are in no position to tell others who they should or should not forgive, much less demand forgiveness of them for their abusers. Christ's advice is for disciples to voluntarily apply to themselves in gratitude for forgiveness received of God, not selfrighteously to damand of others.
     
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  4. Liturgyworks

    Liturgyworks Well-Known Member Anglican

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    If true, it is vile and reprehensible.
     
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  5. Liturgyworks

    Liturgyworks Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Surely forgiveness is always the answer. I cannot think of a Christian justification for witholding forgiveness of any sin and refusing judgement owing to the loathesome condition of mankind as a whole. There are some forms of misconduct that cause more harm than others, and the church has always recognized this as a practical matter, with sodomites always receiving the most severe penances, but, at the same time, every Christian ought to consider himself the worst of sinners. Indeed it is in the prayers before Communion of St. Chrysostom. A Christian who considers himself to be holier than thou is deluded (this is the concept of prelest I had mentioned to @Religious Fanatic ).
     
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  6. Liturgyworks

    Liturgyworks Well-Known Member Anglican

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    This is entirely correct and proper.
     
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  7. Religious Fanatic

    Religious Fanatic Well-Known Member

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    The bishop who said this was among the clergy who abused me psychologically years ago and which has been a recent battle I've had to fight. One of the priests said Annaliese Michel (the young girl who was mentally ill and underwent an 'exorcism') got what she deserved when she died, because if they couldn't exorcise her (she died of starvation and dehydration) then she wanted to keep her demon and brought it on herself. The bishop said he believed she really was possessed but she suffered and died for the salvation of people in purgatory and that her suffering and torment was a blessing. He was the former bishop of the Las Vegas diocese, and stepped down a few years ago. I believe, given what I experienced from him and his colleagues at this time, that he was a psychopath and the group was under a demonic oppression. Funny, given his claim that he successfully exorcised someone at an airport, but they were willing to say no one except Roman priests can cast out demons, and all others are fake. I'm obliged to believe this man's works are possibly fake too, not even owing to the 'worthiness of the ministers hinders not the efficacy of the sacrament' type explanation. There was a serious manifestation of demonic activity in my life at that time from varying sources and this was interconnected with several other outstanding events that were uncanny and sinister. This is just another shocking thing I'm trying to purge from my mind when they attempted to aggressively prostelyze me with cruelty at the time.
     
  8. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

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    You've asked a question that I've had personal experience with: my wife committed suicide. At the funeral service, absolution was pronounced. The bishop himself came and had given the blessing for the presiding priest to do that.
     
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  9. Brigid

    Brigid Active Member Anglican

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    How wonderful that this happened! It does go to show that there is Hope for the most hurt of the human community, thru His Grace and Mercy!
     
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  10. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

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    The church has come a long way from Dante's Inferno, where he wrote of the 'Wood of the Suicides' in Hell. It has been recognized that mental illness is real and often biological, rather than the result of demonic influence. Thus, my diocese has a process in place where a psych doctor (who is one of our priests) is called to screen a candidate for exorcism. And he believes strongly in the reality of demonic influence and even possession but he is also current on all the mental health literature.
     
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  11. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I think you should discard anything this former bishop says. Also you should forgive him and, as much as possible, forget about him.

    Yes, forgive the dingbat. Don't give in to temptation to use his photograph as a dartboard. :laugh: Even though he sounds not much good for anything else... :p
     
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  12. Liturgyworks

    Liturgyworks Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Indeed so.
     
  13. Religious Fanatic

    Religious Fanatic Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but I also said some horrible and demonic things that made me doubt myself and think what they said to me was right. When I felt they were winning, I started to doubt God and think he was what they said he was, and then blasphemed him and acted like a demon in a demonic voice. I used to pretend to to be a demon when I was younger and would take on that personality of possession when I was being bullied in church youth groups because I saw God as an oppressive contradictory entity and thought the idea of a demon being able to kill him would help me feel empowered and in control. One of the other bishops at the place was also a mental health counselor and also said I probably had some demon in me. Naturally, you want to feel that it's not true, but then you have to understand the possibility of when people say you just want people to tell you it's OK to be as you are even if its sinful and not have to worry. I generally don't do that anymore these days, but at the time I was having more problems with Risperidone balance and other medicines, and still have episodes of that sort when I haven't taken it for a while, but then some say demons try to hide behind mental illness and then I am left feeling conflicted and confused. I have a mind that's vulnerable to suggestion. I've had moments where anything and everything could seem true and even if the evidence went against it in some way, if another person said it aggressively enough I would lose confidence in that and start feeling they were right and get anxiety. Both the priests and my former psychiatrist took advantage of this and played games with it when I told them expecting sympathy and was subsequently abused.

    I also ask for apologies for those I've exhausted in bringing up my issues for the past year or two, repeating these things for further confirmation and assurance. I do not have access to any reliable counselors who understand these things. I thought the Anglican pastor who had expertise in clinical psychology would be able to help me, but he is not responding to either my emails for my messages on the answering machine.
     
  14. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    "When I felt they were winning..."

    Oh, well, you were just exhibiting some prideful 'alpha male' behavior; no man likes to lose. If you've repented of your sin before God, it's forgiven and forgotten by Him, so you may as well forget it also! (It's the enemy who wants to keep you weak and feeling condemned for things that are under the blood of Jesus.) The past is the past; let it stay in the past. You have a bright future because God loves you!
     
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