Jesus Prayer Burns the Demons

Discussion in 'Faith, Devotion & Formation' started by Cooper, Jul 31, 2020.

  1. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    That stuff is hard on the liver, so if you need to take something like that for more than 2 or 3 days, maybe switch to good old-fashioned aspirin? Just a thought.

    If my mother were alive, she'd say to drink tea with lemon, honey and whiskey... :D
     
  2. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Your Mum knew a thing or two. I've been drinking a tot of warm diluted honey every 4 hours of the day. Honey is a good natural antiseptic. Not so good against viruses but effective against bacteria. Also a good energy provider if you cant take solids. Had an interesting experience today:

    Not feeling any better but not feeling any worse, I set up an e-consultation with my local GP surgery and described my symptoms on line in the form provided. Got an email back from my GP within the hour with some advice about possible alternative causes in view of symptoms, i.e. no temperature to speak of, the swelling in my throat, lack of cough and no headaches, (could be quinsy, (peritonsillar abscess), or other bacterial or viral infection), but said go and get covid tested ASAP.

    Looked up Government website to find nearest test stations to get a Covid test. I live on a peninsula. The nearest drive-in self testing station was 3.4 miles away according to the Official Government website. (But the site did not say by boat). I don't have a yacht, wish I did, and I'm not a crow so distances (as the crow flies) are no use to me. I booked a test at that station anyway being keen to get it over with and get a result. Left home 12:30 arrived at testing station 13:30, test took 20 minutes, (reading the instructions and fiddling with swab on a stick took time and care. You must not touch teeth tongue or sides of mouth, just ten seconds on each tonsil and ten seconds in one nostril). Had difficuty getting the swab into the little bottle with liquid in, (which must remain in), and beaking off the stick. Couldn't get the lid on the bottle with the stick slightly poking out. Had to put on my hazard lights to attract a helper. An Aussie accent said "Just pull some more of her out mate and break it off again. Completed that, finally got the lid on and completed sealing up the bio hazard bag OK, dumped it in the bin provided and drove back home. 54 miles round trip. Arrived back home 15:00. I now have to wait up to 48 hours for result by email or/and mobile. Cost me darn near a gallon of petrol, £5.00 or $6.53, but I consider it a bargain.

    A cup of tea with lemon, honey and whiskey would have gone down well after all that. Though I'm keeping off the alcohol until I have no further need for paracetamol and am back eating solids.

    Spoke with GP again on the phone late afternoon, she rang me. Told her I'd had the test but was pretty sure it was more likely quinsy. She got in touch with The Main Hospital Ear Nose and Throat to get their advice because GP's won't see or diagnose patients with covid like symptoms but hospitals will because they have proper PPE kit. ENT advised back they don't think it's quinsy because I'm too well.

    So I can't get anyone with any medical qualifications to take a look down my gullet and tell me what they think it might be causing the pain. And all because of Covid. All my GP could offer was a course of antibiotics, without actually looking at it, (and we'll see what happens). I'm not at all keen on screwing up my digestive system with a penecilin based product with some very unpleasant potential side effects, including vomiting / nausia / inflamaion of tongue and mouth, (as if havn't got enough already), rashes / fits / convultions / diarrhoea and further thinning of my blood due to reacting with the regular Warfarin I'm permanently on.

    I'm beginning to wonder which would be preferable Covid or Quinsy. Still hoping it could be something else or preferably that it would just go away. Still it's not as bad as being crucified for suggesting that people should love God and one another a bit more.
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
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  3. Symphorian

    Symphorian Well-Known Member

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    What a palaver Tiffy especially driving when you're feeling unwell and then having to fiddle around with a DIY swab test. Hope you feel better soon and that it's just a minor infection after all.

    I had to contact my GP last week due to a long standing health issue which has flared up again. Went through the e-consult questionnaire hoping to get a prescription only to be informed that I needed to speak with a GP. Managed to get a telephone consult with a GP this morning who suggested trying a new med. I kid you not but the data sheet in the packet is 30 inches long with all manner of contra -indications, side effects and adverse reactions written in tiny text on both sides! I think I'd prefer to put up with my condition rather than add a host of new ailments to it.
     
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  4. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    Can I suggest to the mods that they split Tiffy's issues from the Jesus prayer burns demons conversation. I'm sure everyone is very interested in Tiffy's plight and it seems to be in an inappropriate thread at the moment.
     
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  5. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    By all means do. I was thinking that myself, but I can assure you that the Jesus Prayer has figured quite highly in my daily rountine the last few days. :laugh: Does that make my contributions topical to the thread I wonder? :hmm:.

    Suggested Anglican version: "Jesus Son of God, Saviour, have mercy on us miserable sinners". I don't believe sinners have warrant to be happy unless they recognise they have a saviour. :laugh:

    My relatively good news is that at 06:00 this morning my results came back NEGATIVE. Whatever it is is not Covid, or at least the test, (if it actually did work), did not detect Covid. My Relatively less good news is there is still an issue of some sort to be dealt with. :unsure:
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
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  6. Cooper

    Cooper Member Anglican

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    Tiffy,

    Amen.
    :crosssign2:

    Cooper
     
  7. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    "Still, it's not as bad as being crucified..." What, you never want
    So you admit that you're being quite negative lately, and that you have issues.... :D
    That opening was too good to pass up! :laugh:
     
  8. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Issues with my throat, :( but not with my theology. :yes: :laugh:

    I think being fairly universalist is being rather positive, compared to the rather more negative, "most people will roast in hellfire" stuff we get from double presdestinists and 'hell for the majority in the next life' merchants. That notion is usually based on the following passage but usually ignoring the verses immediately preceding it, and some key verses elsewhere concerning life, where it comes from and how it can be found.

    Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

    The implication here is that those who enter the straight gate are compassionate, (just compassionate, considerate and forgiving of others, based upon their own natural needs and desires, no mention of any other requirement for entry or journey passport).

    Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: This is the wide gate of self interested ambition, arrogance and desire to manipulate or dominate others.

    Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    This was spoken to evil people, ( just like us :wicked: ), who nevertheless were generous to their own children. Implying that God is far more generous and compassionate than any evil person would be no matter how generous they were to their own kind.

    Luke 12:32, is addressed to those who have found that way and are already through the straight gate. They already have the Kingdom, in this life, here and now, God has already given it to them.

    If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Matt.7:11-14.

    This is not about who gets into heaven. It is about how to be led to life, on earth which will automatically take you on through to heaven. John 6:43-51.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  9. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    43 Jesus answered them, ‘Do not complain among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me; and I will raise that person up on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, “And they shall all be taught by God.” Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly, I tell you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats of this bread will live for ever; and the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.’

    44a) Not one of us, (who are evil), can come to Jesus UNLESS drawn by the Father. True?
    44b) Those drawn by the Father will be raised by Christ. True?
    45a) The prophets wrote and their testimony was endorsed by Jesus Christ. True?
    45a) They wrote "They ALL shall be taught by God". True?
    45b) If ALL shall be taught and everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Christ, who is left?
    Deut.4:10, Ps.132:12, Jer.31:33-37, John 10:16.

    49) The manna in the wilderness did not give life. True? They all died.
    47) Who ever believes - what? clue : 50-51 And what do they get? A:=47.
    50) What did Christ give for the life of the world? Answer = His Life.

    Which is what makes the Jesus Prayer so powerful. It reminds us that we are sinners along with the rest of the world that Christ gave his life for.

    Any Demon will hate the fact that anybody knows that, let alone tells it out loud to others.
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
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  10. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    The scriptures that support the more orthodox view (that most will perish and few will receive redemption) are many and are clear. The universalists' view is supported by torturing scriptures to obtain meanings that are not held to by any but universalists (which is ironic, when the near-universal view of a scripture's meaning is not adopted by universalists). :rolleyes: In this case of John 6:45, Jesus Himself gave the interpretation of "they shall all be taught by God" when He followed up with the words, "Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me....Very truly, I tell you, whoever believes has eternal life." Jesus did not explain the meaning to be 'literally every person will be taught by God and be drawn by the Father to me.' Instead, He said that those who have both heard and learned will come to Christ. It is one thing to be taught; it is quite another thing to learn from what is being taught (as a former 7th grade math teacher I can wholeheartedly attest to this :laugh: ). Jesus placed the greater emphasis upon believing in Him, which is why He repeated it in verses 29, 36, 40, 47, & 64.
    Jesus reiterated the proper interpretation in verses 64 and 65: But there are some of you that believe not...Therefore (that is why) said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    Moreover we can see throughout the Gospels that relatively few of the people came to Him; despite large crowds at times, the great majority of people who lived in that region remained relatively ignorant or skeptical (or both) of Him. Only a small percentage believed in Him. Jesus (God incarnate) personally taught the crowd who listened to those words which are recorded in John 6, yet most of the religious leaders who heard Him rejected His message and even many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him (verse 66).

    A universalist should examine his motivations and be self-honest as to why he desires so greatly for universalism to be true, for it is a concept born out of deep emotional desire... a desire which causes one to examine critical scriptures through rose-colored glasses.
     
  11. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    A double predestinationist, 'remnant only', 'limited' salvationist should get a better understanding of the Grace of God and God's ability to judge justly the heart's intent, rather than simply demanding confessions of religion or effusive declarations of 'faith in Christ'. Matt.7:21. Matt.23:1-39

    We are the chosen few, all others shall be damned, there's plenty of room in hell for you, we can't have heaven crammed.

    Some even claim there are only 144,000 sealed, out of the entire world's population since creation to the judgment. (But they have whacky theology anyhow).

    The visible church is packed with unregenerate disciples who may well become regenerate in God's good time. Presumably Christ has prayed for that event for them too. Christ himself affirms this, Luke 22:32.The words 'regenerate' and 'converted', used substantively for denoting individuals, are not found in the New Testament. They are convenient terms which were later invented by the Church with a view to the systematic expression of certain ideas or facts. The substantive 'regeneration' and the verb in the passive 'to be regenerated' are applied only to the truly elect (e.g. Tit.3:5, 1 Pet.1:3, 1 Pet.1:23. As for 'conversion', it indicates the receiving of the pardon of sins, the entering into the kingdom and the enjoyment of a heritage in it (Mt.18:3, Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19 etc.) and the giving of the Holy Spirit, in the FULL sense of that expression, but it is never imposed as a condition of entry into the visible church. The visible church is composed of disciples amongst whose number are found those who are or will be truly regenerate, converted individuals destined for life eternal. That much is certainly true. In the visible church the called and the elect are to be found side by side.

    Nevertheless, as essential as the receiving of the Holy Spirit, in repentant regeneration is, to enter onto the role of the fully elect, unregenerate 'disciples', as fully paid up members of 'the world', have received forgivness of sins already, when Christ gave his flesh for the life of the world. John 6:51.

    In Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us. 2 Cor. 5:19.

    Love
    covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet. 4:8.
    .
     
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  12. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    Well if it's good enough for Tiffy it's good enough for me. ----I've just had a covid test as well.
    We visited my brother in law's family last Sunday and they were full of colds. Two days later I had a slight sore throat, sneezing, no temperature and runny nose. My brother law had also had a precautionary covid test but hadn't received his results when we visited.
    My wife could worry for New Zealand at the Olympics and wanted me to ring our covid help line. They suggested I have a test and it was booked for 10am the next day, a 5 minute drive away. My experience is different to Tiffy's, I stayed in our car and a nurse put a swab up my nose, enough to make my eyes water. The experience was " unpleasant " but not appreciably painfull if people have concerns about the test.
    I suspect they wanted me to do the test as they want to do certain amounts of community testing and I am probably a better bet that the random man on the street.
    I am very certain I don't have covid as there has been no community transfere here in NZ for just shy of 100 days. My results come back it 48 hours.
    I now don't have; a sore throat, or sneezing, but still have a runny nose. One of my unpleasant side effects is I tried to suppress a sneeze and as I struggled to get my handkerchief out I somehow pulled a muscle in my leg.

    Ok you can now get back to prayers and demons:)
     
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  13. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Glad to hear your symptoms seem manageable. Hope you make a swift recovery. I'm feeling quite a lot better already myself.
    Getting back to demons, there was a time in the dark ages when your sneezing and leg injury would have been disgnosed as demonic activity, there being no satisfactory scientific explanations for inexplicable phenomenon back then. Thankfully 1st world minds now have knowledge enough to dispel such irrational fears.
    .
     
  14. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Correction: Most 1st world minds. :)

    Covid tests are not a magic bullet though. Mine came back in only 16 hours, negative, (quite impressive), but that does not mean I did not have covid. It is not an 'All Clear'. It could just mean that the test was negative because the test failed. There are about 40% false negatives because unless one gets tested within 48 hours of symptoms onset the test is unlikely to have enough material from the throat to work on. It is deeper in your system by then and incubating. After 4 days of feeling really ill, forget the normal swab test. They will nearly always return a negative result from the back of the throat and nostrils.

    To get back on thread:

    Now we know so much more about what really makes people sick, viruses, bacteria etc. what do now think demonic activity actually is?

    It used to be anything from something stopping your cows giving milk - to suicidal psychosis, epilepsy and LSD acid trips caused by eating fungus infected grain.

    So what is it now, do we suppose?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  15. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    Everything is slowly getting better and my test came back negative. I guess normal service can be resumed on this thread.:)
     
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  16. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Does this mean we don't have to socially distance from your internet posts? :run:LOL
     
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  17. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Don't you think, with me in the UK, him in NZ and you in the USA there is not enough distance already? :biglaugh: Yet I still feel a certain affinity to you both. Could that be The Fellowship of the Holy Spirit?
     
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  18. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    It isn't the Fellowship of the Ring, I can tell you that. :cheers: But I do have armour, and a sword! (Eph. 6) How about you fellas? :D
     
  19. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    Well I'm mightily impressed Rexlion, I see you spelt armour correctly and not the way you may spell labour. I have 5 swords; 2 1897 pattern infantry officers swords, a 1845 pattern inf.officers sword, a 1912 pattern cavary officers sword and a 1908 pattern cavalry troopers sword. Unfortunately I don't have any armour, but just a cautionary lesson, if it is a suit of armour you have it is still illegal to wear it into the House of Commons.
     
  20. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    I find it interesting how Paul is selective about which Old Testament scripture verse he quotes. In these cases he obviously wanted to avoid the cloak of vengence and give two alternative metaphorical meanings for wearing a breastplate.

    For he put on righteousness as a breastplate,
    and a helmet of salvation upon his head;
    and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing,
    and was clad with zeal as a cloak. Is.59:17 Isa.59:12-21.

    Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; Eph.6:14-18

    But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 1 Thes.5:4-10. Notice that rather than righteousness, the breastplate is now metaphorically symbolic of faith and love.

    I also find it interesting that Paul here seems to be adressing 'believers' in this passage, (and that of course is what believers exclusively assume), but is often actually speaking more broadly of the human race when he uses the word us in these verses.

    But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others;

    Here Paul is drawing a contrast between the conduct of a disciple of Christ, with the conduct of those who are ignorant of Christ's teaching or despising of it. 'Of the night' being plain ignorance, 'of darkness' being ignorance by choice.

    but let us watch and be sober. (Here he speaks to disciples and potential disciples) For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. (Here Paul speaks of human beings, who are in ignorance of Christ) see Eph.5:14. But let us, who are of the day, (Here Paul speaks exclusively to believers), be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. (The implication here is that those in darkness or drunk lack any hope of Salvation, not are deprived of it), For God hath not appointed us to wrath, (Here Paul may be speaking of the human race when he says us 2 Pet.3:9 ), but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

    Notice that Paul has included both 'believing disciples', and 'sleepers and drunks' in the overall category of those who should (would? may?), obtain salvation and live together with Christ.

    For Paul then being 'Awake' is an active form of salvation. Sleeping, darkness, drunkenness is a form of pre-death by comparison. Rom.13:11, 1 Cor.15:34. Gospel preaching (in the power of The Holy Spirit), therefore awakens the dead to serve Christ in this life and live with him in the next.

    That would therefore be more than just an adequate reason for doing it.

    Winning over your enemy to your own cause and adding them to your own ranks is a good way of winning a war. And we are the Church Militant on earth.
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020