Historic theologian on women in the church

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by anglican74, Sep 22, 2020.

  1. Phoenix

    Phoenix Moderator Staff Member Anglican

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    Everyone, please remember to refrain from referring to people in a personal way, and keep to the general issues involved.
     
  2. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Where do you get the notion that "women can only achieve highest dignity within Christianity"?

    Where do you get the idea that "Christianity is not possible without holy orders"?

    The Communists in the USSR attempted to destroy holy orders in order to destroy the church. How was that an "anti-woman policy"?

    What is your resoning behing your assertion that "Women being in holy orders contributes to secularization of Britain"? Do you have some irrefutable statistical evidence or is that just a gut feeling?

    What specifically Christian 'culture' is eroded, and how, by ordained women? Many of our country parishes are ministered to, up to 3 or 4 in one group, by women priests. Before women could become ordained in the Church of England there were not enough men to minister to all the parishes that wanted their own priest, and parishes couldn't afford to pay for them, so they would have had to close or become just 'Chapels of Rest'. As it is some only get a communion service once a month and they are very happy for it to be celebrated by a duly ordained woman. Most have proven themselves extremely competent and are pastoraly much appreciated.

    Do you really think a "return of the (inevitable)? post-Christian exploitation of women", is precipitated by more women serving the Christian communities in the role of priests? Some manage church business better than some men do. I imagine Cloe did at Corinth, better than the eucharist abusing, misogynistic, male supremacist, seperatist, factional, men were. At least that's the impression we can infer from the Bible's collection of Paul's epistles to Corinth.

    To really help the church, Christian men should take advice from Gamaliel at Acts.5:38-39.

    "So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these [wo] men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of [wo] man, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!”

    Yes the scriptural 'forces' are stacked against the ordination of women and defences and barricades have gone up. Enclaves of male only ministry and doctrinally pure holy huddles now abound, and no one can blame them for that, because we all must accept that a literal interpretation of Holy Scripture as the inspired and irrevocably infallible word of God, does not speak of women being ordained, but why can't male only adherents just be content to practice the praxis of keeping God's house in order where they are, without shouting "Heretic - Heretic - Heretic" at those churches who can only GET a priest for the cure of their souls were she a godly woman, because not enough men are coming forward as ordinands, otherwise the congregation would simply have to go without shriving and eucharist.

    Give the women a break I say. If it is of God, then OK, you won't stop it, if not, as you are convinced the bible tells you, then they cannot possibly succeed, but if they fail because they have simply been opposed by men, but God didn't mind, then it may be that some awkward questions may need to be answered at the Great Assize, when the good and bad fish finally get sorted from the drag-net, the sheep get separated from the goats, the tares get separated and burned and the wheat is piled in God's heavenly Silos.
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  3. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Neither though does it specifically speak of women receiving communion or any specific instruction that men only may ordain only men, yet both of these happen without any objection being raised by literalist fundamentalist bible believers or anyone else; and rightly so.
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  4. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Women should let men be all the priests, because it's the man's only legitimate chance to wear elegant women's dresses (called by fancy names, of course) and be respected for it. :whistle:

    Just kidding! :)
     
  5. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    I've often wondered why the bible seems so strict on clothing, when Adam and Eve wore exactly the same gear; figleaf oneseys and later on, off the peg fur coats. :laugh: ( Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths. ) - (And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.)

    The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. Deut.22:5.

    I wonder what the differences were though in mens and womens garment though. Women and men had no slacks, suits or jeans. There were no tights, nylons, panties, knickers, bras or bikinis. Priests wore some really fetching gear, decorated with urim and thumim on the chests and with fringes of pomegranites round their ankle length skirts. Both sexes were covered from head to foot, so how did they know if someone was pushing the boundaries in the underwear department.

    What items of clothing were actually involved and what designated them as male or female garments?

    As for today in the church, is a cope, cloak, dalmatic, cassock, surplis, stole, preaching scarf, etc. male or female clothing? Is there any clothing item which is / was universally regarded as truly acceptably both male and female clothing. Sandals, socks, sloppy pull overs, berets, belts, scarves, overalls etc. for instance.

    I just love those frilly lace cotters that the RC altar servers wear and as for those richly embroidered Afghans that Bishops sometimes sport, wonderfully fetching with the mitres topping off their ensembles. :laugh: