Ex-Catholic, agnostic considering Anglican Church

Discussion in 'New Members' started by Steve Orr, May 26, 2019.

  1. Steve Orr

    Steve Orr New Member

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    Hello all,

    I am a bit of an anomaly I think as I was raised in a non-religious home and found Christianity after traversing a ton of other traditions. Became Eastern Orthodox 11 years ago, then Catholic 5 years ago, and am now probably an agnostic deist sometimes theist at best... but I am still very attracted to liturgy, Jesus, and Christian spirituality in general. And having lapsed about 2 years ago entirely, I miss it being a part of my life.

    Skepticism and atheism have definitely influenced my thinking, but I am still open to aspects of Christianity, particularly spiritual practice and Christian virtue. Anglicanism honestly sounds like the perfect place for me in theory, if there is one; It seems to avoid the extremes of my previous traditions and runs more democratically. I study anthropology and evolution quite a lot, so am quite incapable of accepting doctrines that dismiss findings in these fields. That said, I find many biblical teachings and stories acceptable when not taken literally. I am also very much a supporter of LGBTQ rights and well being, and I openly support gay marriage, as well as assisted dying. Technically, I was not allowed to support these as a Catholic.

    Anyway, I am very much hoping to meet Anglicans on here and hopefully gradually find a home in the church and spiritual life of Christianity in a way that doesn't conflict with what I wholeheartedly believe and support. I feel that Anglicanism, especially here in Canada, may be my last hope for participation in a Christian tradition without suffering cognitive dissonance or struggling with tenets I cannot in good conscience adhere to.

    Thanks for reading!

    Steve
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  2. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    Hi Steve it's great to have a fellow agnostic here I was feeling a bit lonely. A lot of the Anglicans here need people like us to keep them on their toes. Check out a few of my posts and tell me what you think. Have a great time here./// AA
     
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  3. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Welcome, and I look forward to having a robust conversation!

    Btw, I'm glad you like science, evolution. All those things are my favorites as well. Btw LGBT stuff goes completely against nature and natural law, so there's no help for agnostics therein. But :) happy to talk logic and evidence any time!
     
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  4. Steve Orr

    Steve Orr New Member

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    I will do that, AnglicanAgnostic! Thanks.
     
  5. Steve Orr

    Steve Orr New Member

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    Thanks! My insulin pump goes against nature too, but that doesn't mean I will stop using it! Nature is messy, so the only natural law I see as absolute is dying. As for the LGBTQ thing, homosexuality is rampant in the natural world. I myself am hetero, but I am an ally and supporter of those who by no choice of their own are attracted to people of the same sex. I am simply following my conscience in this. I hope this doesn't make me unwelcome here.
     
  6. mediaque

    mediaque Active Member

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    As for myself, it doesn't make you unwelcome here at all.
     
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  7. Steve Orr

    Steve Orr New Member

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    Thank you.
     
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  8. Steve Orr

    Steve Orr New Member

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    Can we not edit posts here? Sorry, "rampant" is excessive. I should say rather that homosexuality behaviour in the natural world is probably more common than you think. :)
     
  9. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Not at all!

    The insulin pump is no more against natural law than is any other tool devised by living creatures, be it a bird building a nest when none existed, a monkey using a stick, or a man building a skyscraper crane. It's perfectly in line with natural law to use your faculties, such as reason, in the way they were intended, such as to invent things.

    And lemmings also walk off cliffs. Animals have no reason and do many nonsensical things. If you want to breed a horse, just watch some documentaries on how the horse-breeders get them to hump a leather sleeve.

    Not everything in nature is natural, or how the word "natural" has always been properly understood.

    I'm sorry to tell you but you've been misininformed (and disinformed). Many have tried to show how same-sex attraction could have been genetic or out of our control, but no study has yet found any evidence of this. Let me repeat this again: there is no evidence whatsoever that same-sex attraction is genetic or predisposed. At most you can say that people afflicted with this disorder have it due to childhood trauma. And I am all for treating it for what it is: mental trauma. The American Psychiatric Association legitimately listed it as a mental disorder until 1977.
     
  10. Steve Orr

    Steve Orr New Member

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    If it is a choice, I challenge you to be gay this week. Be sexually attracted to members of your own sex. Let me know how that goes!

    Most scientists agree that sexual orientation has a complex array of causes including environmental, biological, and cognitive ones. It is, in most cases, anything but a choice, though. It's not a mere fetish. If it is, it isn't the kind of homosexuality that I support.

    Anyway, I'd rather not turn my introductory post into a redundant debate about homosexual causes. Trust me, I've had my share of such debates and I highly doubt you'll have anything new on offer that I haven't heard/read numerous times. I stand where I stand. Peace!
     
  11. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I'm not talking about frivolous choices here. They have a mental disorder, and it's the same situation as with many other compulsive mental disorders, such as pedophilia. They may not be born with it (in fact we 100% know they are not), but they do have a mental disorder which makes it difficult for them NOT to be attracted to a door knob, or to a child, or to a hole in the wall, or to a hole in a man. They have mental issues, which make it hard for those people to NOT choose for that action. Serial killers are known to suffer from a disorder that utterly compels them, and they are powerless to stop it.

    These things are very difficult.

    And yet nevertheless we know that sodomy and emasculation (not to mention pedophilia) are extremely destructive to their bodies and minds. I have nothing but love for them, but I have no love for their illness, and the best way to express that love is to help them deal with that illness, which first starts with the recognition of the said illness.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
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  12. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    Oh please do give me any resulting youtube links.
     
  13. Steve Orr

    Steve Orr New Member

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    Your words sadden me. I had really hoped that I wouldn't have to read the same old ignorant and religiously biased rhetoric here that I have encountered repeatedly elsewhere. Homosexuality stopped being classified as an illness in 1973. That means it was considered a mental illness for only one measly year out of my entire life. Our understanding has moved forward. Why hasn't yours?

    Why is homosexuality being considered an illness - a view not held by the scientific or medical communities - so important to you?

    Again, I was really hoping I wouldn't have to get into this on my introductory post. Too late, I guess. But I am quite sure any further discussion between you and I on the matter will prove fruitless.