Do you pray the Anglican Rosary?

Discussion in 'Faith, Devotion & Formation' started by Anna Scott, Apr 9, 2012.

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Do you pray the Anglican Rosary?

  1. No: I don't believe in praying a Rosary.

    10 vote(s)
    25.6%
  2. No: Other reasons.

    7 vote(s)
    17.9%
  3. Yes: The Rosary is helpful to my prayer life.

    14 vote(s)
    35.9%
  4. Yes: Other reasons.

    2 vote(s)
    5.1%
  5. I would consider praying the Anglican Rosary.

    14 vote(s)
    35.9%
  6. I would not consider praying the Anglican Rosary.

    6 vote(s)
    15.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Gordon

    Gordon Well-Known Member

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    Actually little brother these scriptures had been provided by Anna quite some time ago when this was discussed in the past, but it is great that you have been able to provide them again. It is a brilliant post.....
     
  2. Old Christendom

    Old Christendom Well-Known Member

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    And yet nothing of what you quoted actually proves that we can and ought to communicate with dead saints, since there is just ONE mediator between God and man, nor does it overturn the basic scriptural prohibition against attempting to contact the dead. Nor does it overturn article XXII.
     
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  3. Old Christendom

    Old Christendom Well-Known Member

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    Charles Hodge
    on
    Intercession of Saints
    (extracted from his Systematic Theology)​

    There is but one Mediator between God and man, and but one High Priest through whom we draw near to God. And as intercession is a priestly function, it follows that Christ is our only intercessor. But as there is a sense in which all believers are kings and priests unto God, which is consistent with Christ's being our only king and priest; so there is a sense in which one believer may intercede for another, which is not inconsistent with Christ's being our only intercessor. By intercession in the case of believers is only meant that one child of God may pray for another or for all men. To intercede is in this sense merely to pray for. But in the case of Christ it expresses an official act, which none who does not fill his office can perform. As under the old economy one Israelite could pray for his brethren, but only the High Priest could enter within the veil and officially interpose in behalf of the people; so now, although we may pray, one for another, Christ only can appear as a priest before God in our behalf and plead his merits as the ground on which his prayers for his people should be answered.

    Protestants object to the intercession of saints as taught and practised in the Church of Rome.

    1. Because it supposes a class of beings who do not exist; that is, of canonized departed spirits. It is only those who, with the angels, have been officially declared by the Church, on account of their merits, to be now in heaven, who are regarded as intercessors.

    This, however, is an unauthorized assumption on the part of the Church. It has no prerogative to enable it thus to decide, and to enroll whom it will among glorified spirits. Often those thus dignified have been real enemies of God, and persecutors of his people.

    2. It leads to practical idolatry. Idolatry is the ascription of divine attributes to a creature. In the popular mind the saints, and especially the Virgin Mary, are regarded as omnipresent; able at all times and in all places, to hear the prayers addressed to them, and to relieve the wants of their worshippers.

    3. It is derogatory to Christ. As He is the only and sufficient mediator between God and man, and as He is ever willing to hear and answer the prayers of his people, it supposes some deficiency in Him, if we need other mediators to approach God in our behalf.

    4. It moreover is contrary to Scripture, inasmuch as the saints are assumed to prevail with God on account of their personal merits. Such merit no human being has before God. No man has any merit to plead for his own salvation, much less for the salvation of others.

    5. The practice is superstitious and degrading. Superstition is belief without evidence. The practice of the invocation of saints is founded on a belief which has no support from Scripture. It is calling upon imaginary helpers. It degrades men by turning them from the Creator to the creature, by leading them to put their trust in an arm of flesh, instead of in the power of Christ. It, therefore, turns away the hearts and confidence of the people from Him to those who can neither hear nor save.
     
  4. Toma

    Toma Well-Known Member Anglican

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    The fact remains that the citizens of Heaven are aware of our actions on Earth. If they can see even a single living person repenting, then the issue of their observance vs. non-observance is settled.

    I dare not say that we ought to pray to any persons but God, for we should strive that people know only Jesus Christ Crucified. I simply no longer find it reasonable to condemn the idea of living persons addressing people in Heaven, given the words of the very Lord of Heaven & Earth. It's not as if those at rest hear us by their own power, nor that we can hold a conversation with them - for Christ only says that Heaven rejoices when it sees a sinner repent; but thus it can see a sinner requesting prayers. I dare not contradict the clear teaching of our Lord & Saviour - but equally, I dare not demand that anyone make this a tenet upon which their whole Christian life & practice rest (as so many on this forum seem to have done).

    With regards to the One Mediator argument: I don't think it has any meaning here. If the heavenly population can hear and see us in some mysterious power of God, they can & want to pray for specific things. This changes everything. Before, I would've said that attempting to contact them is like trying to bridge an unbridgeable gap, and thus one would have to make the departed into mediators between God & man in their own right. Now, however, this teaching of the Lord shows the difference between mediation & intercession. In this new light, St. Paul asking the Corinthians to pray for him is exactly the same as my asking St. Mary to pray for me. Of course, none of this allows the abominations & idolatry of calling a creature our very Life & our Hope, but it makes the rest of the rosary less objectionable. :)

    The Lord is the one Mediator between God & man not just because He alone allows us to commune with God, but because His broken body, shed blood, passion, and glorification re-establish the ontological link between God and Man that was severed at the Fall. His Mediation is surely beyond mere intercession, invocation, and advocacy - or else He would not have told us to pray for one another, and would just take care of it all. His is a mediation of the metaphysical realities of human nature and being. His Incarnation is the Mediation - Divinity dwelling in Flesh. It has nothing to do with us asking each other to pray. He seems to understand His own glorious reigning Mediation to be something deeper.
     
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  5. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Of course Charles Hodge is not an Anglican.
     
  6. Toma

    Toma Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Also, note that he objects to it as "practiced by the Church of Rome". Obviously the Roman practice is horrific. I am not talking about that. :)

    As to #4, I don't ask you to pray based on your merits, so I wouldn't ask Mary either. It's about love.
     
  7. Joan Lucia-Treese

    Joan Lucia-Treese Member

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    It seems to me that we all need to take a deep breathe! We have passionate points of view. But that does not mean or does not allow others who differ to strike out against one another. We've gone off topic here. I came to this site in hoping to engage in CIVIL and respectful discourse. Can we be followers of Christ when there is so much angst?
     
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  8. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    The apostles could, so I guess we can, too.
     
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  9. Gordon

    Gordon Well-Known Member

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    They were also human like us, but that is not the point...

    Where is the second great commandment in all this?
     
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  10. luke

    luke Member

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    Been thinking about a buying some rosaries beads for some time ( even though i did not know there was a Anglican practise, i honestly thought only the RC used such items, i still have so much to learn) , so i have just ordered a set from the Link provided by Andrea.:D
     
  11. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Couple points. 1) no where in your quote of that hymn is the Blessed Virgin prayed to. She is told to Rejoice because she is blessed by God in a number of very poetic ways. I see nothing terrible there. Wasn't the BVM used by God in a unique miraculous way to be the gateway which brought salvation to the world? Don't the scriptures guarantee that all generation will call her blessed? Didn't the councils and early fathers laud her as the Theotokos, the God bearer, the Mother of God? The mother of God has a unique role in ushering in both the church and God's means of salvation. Her submission to God's will is the picture of perfect faith and obedience which all Christians should emulate. If God found her worthy to bestow the distinct honor of overshadowing her with the holy ghost and using her as the vessel by which the incarnation occurred, why shouldn't Christians also honor her?

    2) you're making a false distinction for the sake of furthering your argument. to pray means to ask. it's just that simple. Nowhere has there ever been a distinction between praying and asking except in the minds of those who think that asking their church for prayers should be ok but those who have been glorified and stand in God's presence in heaven should somehow be off limits. The communion of saints means nothing I'd it does not mean that all the saints are knit together in the Body of Christ and live as one family both on earth and in heaven. If you think it's ok to ask for the prayers of friends and church members on earth, then you must be ok with asking similar prayers from those in heaven, otherwiseyou make a mockery of the communion we affirm every time we say the creed imho. What the Articles rejected were superstitious and idolatrous invocations involving making offerings, patronages, and formulaic incantations meant to seek aid from the saints in their own power. Such things should be condemned.
     
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  12. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    absolutely beautiful response! Magnificent!
     
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  13. Toma

    Toma Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Lowly Layman, I appreciate much of your post. Can you, however, really defend calling Mary "propitiation of all the world"? It's not the prayer to Mary I am objecting to here, but the shocking implications for theology. Exactly how do you feel safe allowing Christians to debase Christ's propitiation by calling her the propitiation etc. ? It's just like the "our life, our sweetness, and our hope" line which no one has addressed yet.

    Also, calling her blessed & honouring her are perfectly easy without going overboard into making up poetic titles for her which are not her own. Robert's post highlights many good things we say about the Theotokos, but the presence of just one error makes the whole thing saddening.

    Happy Sunday by the way. :)
     
  14. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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  15. Old Christendom

    Old Christendom Well-Known Member

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    That's really not the issue. We know the saints in heaven are alive in Christ, that they join with the angels in praising God and that they are somewhat aware of what's going on in the world. This is a feeling of great comfort.

    However, the real issue is that we are forbidden by Scripture to attempt to contact the dead, which includes the practice of the invocation of the dead saints. The 39 articles also forbid it.

    Scripture says that Christ is the sole mediator between God and man precisely because it is He alone who has grounds to intercede for us before the Father. We are encouraged to pray for one another here on earth in order to strengthen the bonds of charity. We are not told to have recourse with the departed, though. Nor did the Jews. In fact, we're forbidden from doing so.
     
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  16. Gordon

    Gordon Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you LL... centering prayer of which prayer beads or prayer ropes have been around from the early days of Christianity... I am glad some within the Anglican Church are interested in getting back to basics. Such as centering prayer, actually reading and reflecting on scripture...
     
  17. Joan Lucia-Treese

    Joan Lucia-Treese Member

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    How to hijack a thread...:think:
     
  18. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Active Member

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    I'm thinking about getting an Anglican Rosary. If anybody can suggest a good place to purchase one, please PM me. I'd really appreciate it!
     
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  19. Joan Lucia-Treese

    Joan Lucia-Treese Member

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    Dark Knight: Just google for Anglican Rosary - there are several sites that sell them.
     
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  20. maci75

    maci75 New Member

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