I know you prefer more modern references, but the quoted portion seems harsh and unyielding. One might think that they would allow for some possible alternate interpretations, rather than throwing down their gauntlet and basically asserting that Jesus erred. By comparison several commentators from the 1700s and 1800s (Barnes, Gill, Clarke are three I know of) allowed that the Greek word γενεά in Matt. 24:34 was spoken with an alternate meaning such as "age" or "race of people" (we know that Greek words, among others, can have two, three, or four meanings based on context). Matthew Henry's Commentary (late 1600s or early 1700s) goes in a different direction and points out that the "this generation" statement should only be viewed as pertaining to the portion of Jesus' prophecy which dealt with the fall of Jerusalem: (1.) As to these things, the wars, seductions, and persecutions, here foretold, and especially the ruin of the Jewish nation; “This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be fulfilled (Mat_24:34); there are those now alive, that shall see Jerusalem destroyed, and the Jewish church brought to an end.” Because it might seem strange, he backs it with a solemn asseveration; “Verily, I say unto you. You may take my word for it, these things are at the door.” Christ often speaks of the nearness of that desolation, the more to affect people, and quicken them to prepare for it. Note, There may be greater trials and troubles yet before us, in our own day, than we are aware of. They that are old, know not what sons of Anak may be reserved for their last encounters. (2.) But as to that day and hour which will put a period to time, that knoweth no man, Mat_24:36. Therefore take heed of confounding these two, as they did, who, from the words of Christ and the apostles; letters, inferred that the day of Christ was at hand, 2Th_2:2. No, it was not; this generation, and many another, shall pass, before that day and hour come. Note, [1.] There is a certain day and hour fixed for the judgment to come; it is called the day of the Lord, because so unalterably fixed. None of God's judgments are adjourned sine die - without the appointment of a certain day. [2.] That day and hour are a great secret. Prudens futuri temporis exitum Caliginosa nocte premit Deus. But Heaven has wisely hid from human sight The dark decrees of future fate, And sown their seeds in depth of nights. - Horace.No man knows it; not the wisest by their sagacity, not the best by any divine discovery. We all know that there shall be such a day; but none knows when it shall be, no, not the angels; though their capacities for knowledge are great, and their opportunities of knowing this advantageous (they dwell at the fountain-head of light), and though they are to be employed in the solemnity of that day, yet they are not told when it shall be: none knows but my Father only....
Never say "never," though! No one thought Israel as a nation could be restored after the passage of nearly two millennia, but it was. Who is to say what might happen? Perhaps they might even find evidence through excavations that the temple can stand beside the other "important building".
I’m simply saying it’s unlikely. Judaism is the religion of the Talmud, not the “Old Testament”. Practically no Jew in his or her right mind, whether secular or religious, has any interest in recreating a sacrificial system. That reason alone is sufficient, without even having to get into the complicated problems of Israeli foreign policy, or the patent immorality and illegality of destroying a rival sacred site. Most of the enthusiasm regarding the faint prospects of a rebuilt Temple is being driven either by wacky Dispensational Christian fundamentalists or by extremists far outside the mainstream of Israeli society. In the case of the former group, it should be evident that their motive is also highly suspect: they believe they can speed up the Apocalypse by supporting certain causes. These people are dangerous and should be disavowed by anyone who cares about peace and justice in that part of the world.
Another major problem might be the fact that Jewish Theological understanding and praxis has considerably changed and developed since Herod’s temple was destroyed. Only a very small fanatical minority within Judaism would have any use for the temple anymore, even if it was rebuilt. It was quite literally an abattoir for killing thousands of creatures a day. I don't think there would be much call within Judaism to go back to all that 'ancient religion' from its now well established theological concepts and worship. They are much closer to Christianity in their understanding of how sin is atoned for and what God requires of penitents. .
Far be it for you to show intolerance, eh? I think that the group of Christians you mention tend to "support certain causes" because they think those causes are just, not that they can "speed up the Apocalypse." Oh, there may be a few on the fringe who do think the latter, but most Christians know that the day and time of the Second Advent were set by God long ago and they are not changeable by man's efforts (even though we may and rightly should pray, "Come soon, Lord Jesus!" those prayers were taken into account before time began). Please realize that your past background of Orthodoxy greatly colors your perception of dispensationalist and fundamentalist believers via a lack of experiential knowledge. On the other hand, I have a background that includes close knowledge of those types of believers (as well as RCs), so my perception may be a bit more balanced and informed. Based on this, I say that grouping these people into the "dangerous" classification is itself a divisive danger to the Body of Christ. With that said, I cannot speak to any "Israeli extremists," of which I have little knowledge. I fully agree that in the natural order of things, it is extremely unlikely! However, if the Bible passages on the subject say that the temple will be standing once again prior to the Second Advent, we should discount the natural and trust in the supernatural (in God's strength and will to bring it about). The key here is to study these scriptures and try to discern the correct interpretation. Some groups are interpreting it one way, other groups interpret it the other way; they can't both be right, but at least both groups should be viewed as sincere in their belief.
Actually the Temple COULD be rebuilt by fanatical followers of a messianic sect, (thus there would certainly be wars and rumours of wars if some fanatical religious nutters demolished the Dome of The Rock.), starting WW3, but that would not mean it is "God's Will", that it should have happened. There are plenty of things which happen as a result of over enthusiastic followers of various 'Insanely Religious Sects', which are in all probability nothing whatever to do with God's Will on the matter. God's Will is not sufficiently done on earth. Why else would we be told by Jesus Christ to PRAY for it to actually BE done? Just because something happens, even just because the scriptures PREDICT it happening, it is not necessarily GOD'S will that it should have happened. More likely it would have happened due to the over enthusiastic will of sinful, self destructive, man. .
As it turns out, my background actually does include the elements you mentioned. The truly fanatical ones are a small subset, but they also tend to be the loudest voices. I doubt they would say they were trying to hurry up the apocalypse, but that is what they are attempting to do, in the sense of removing what they see as potential obstacles to it. I personally don’t buy into any of that, as you might have guessed, and when I look at it I’m thinking in terms of the potential human cost of what some of them are hoping will happen, and the thought is unsettling, to put it mildly.
I apologize; apparently I've forgotten. Would you refresh my memory as to the course of your spiritual journey through the various groups you've been in, please?
Friends??? Matthew 24 47 And while JESUS yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve(take a lok at John 6:v.70-71), went before the multitude, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him. 48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?- JESUS left crystalclear saying to his people they will be hated of all nations for HIS name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. And Daniel prophesied: Daniel 12:v.12 - understand: 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
Yes, the main religion in Israel is the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Judaism, and from the midst of them will appear and manifest the rusthless esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah, the Beast of the earth-Revelation 13:v.11 AND SO ON- in fulfillment the prophecy of our Lord JESUS-John 5:v.43-47: 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER (a false messiah, an IMPOSTOR) shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. This messiah IMPOSTOR may be of the tribe of Dan, he is the LITTLE HORN who will come up from the midst 10 tribes of Israel-Daniel 7:v.7-8 and 19-21 (This prophecy will LITERALLY fulfill in this current decade, maybe, yes, maybe the spiritist false messiah will manifest himself during the next year 2023-if so who lives will see) . And this SPIRITIST messiah "will make great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And (will ) deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the Beast(the Beast of sea-the Pope and his great whore-the RCC); There will not be built any temple neither there will be any kind of sacrifice, but there will be a THRONE in Jerusalem, the THRONE of the false messiah, who will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God will sit in JERUSALEM, shewing himself that he is God. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Be careful or then get ready. What I say to you I say to all.
Yes, perfect, that's a good interpretation and post, for that cast or legion of pseudoChristians, according the righteous Judgment of GOD, the Word is GOD, they are "far outside the main stream of Israeli society" as you said, it because the esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist Israeli society are the 10 horns of the Red Dragon(i.e. the Israeli society are the ten tribes of Israel - the clay, the dry land, and from them rises up the ileventh horn-the little horn-understand? maybe he rises up from the tribe of Dan, as prophesied Jacob-Genesis 49:v.17-take a look.). That said, on the other hand, according your own words, "In the case of the former group, it should be evident that their motive is also highly suspect: they believe they can speed up the Apocalypse by supporting certain causes. These people are dangerous and should be disavowed by anyone who cares about peace and justice in that part of the world". And why are they so dangerous? It's because that group are led and guided in whole world by Pastors, or Bishops, or by TV Evangelists, even on the pulpit of all evangelical Churches of this current time, time of Apocalypse, times of great apostasy, possessed by that same dangerous spirit. In this case, why do the Pastors, or Bishops, or TV Evangelists, among others, and their followers, are all dangerous? Well, it is because they are de TAIL of the red Dragon, understand? And they "are far outside the main stream of Israeli society" as you said. Revelation 12:v.3-4: 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red Dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his TAIL drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. But wait: What does the Word of GOD reveal about the TAIL? Isaiah 9:v.14-16 say: 14 Therefore the Lord will cut off from Israel HEAD and TAIL, branch and rush, in one Day. (The LORD's Day, seventh and last Day or seventh and last millnnium) 15 The ancient and honourable, he is the HEAD; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the TAIL. 16 For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed. Be careful or then get ready. What I say to you I say to all. Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon | Pure Bible Forum (and see www.sinaiticus.net ) THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS - WHY FROGS? | Pure Bible Forum (and see www.sinaiticus.net )
In fact the world is infested of demons-John 6:v.70-71- as you have invoked above before the readers . But JESUS in His prayer said to the Father: John 17:v.14-16 14 I have given them thy Word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou should take them out of the world, but that thou should keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Actually I class myself as an Agnostic, I just used the term Heathen as it seemed more "interesting" in the context of what was being said and who was saying it. And again I ask for some of these many who come in Jesus's name, and some of the great signs and wonders they will do in the end times that you say are here. This is for the third time of asking. Well a commentary of John 5:43 says "Here, Jesus points out that the Jewish religious leaders are willing to accept false teachers. They were happy to have the approval of other men and other self-styled gurus. And yet, they were not willing to follow the evidence God has given to the right conclusion." That seems all very innoculus in the context of end times. As for interpreting Revelation, I don't even pretend to understand it, as I suspect the experts don't either. Just look at how vague Nostradamas's predictions are, often only becoming apparent after the event. Maybe future events will have people saying I can see what Revelation was on about now, we were wrong to think it was about the Roman Empire. Paul When he said "He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God". How can he set himself up in God's temple if it ain't built?
The Jews said to JESUS: Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body. John 3:v.20-21 The true Church is also the body of Christ. That said, tell us, what is the temple of GOD? I have alredy explained it in another posts. Yes, GOD has given the right conclusion, but you not. Your foolish thinking is from a human perspective, from men guided by the red Dragon, not from GOD's perspective. The problem is that you drink of the cup of demons, and oil does not mix with water.
And it is... "And again I ask for some of these many who come in Jesus's name, and some of the great signs and wonders they will do in the end times that you say are here. This is for the third time of asking." Well can you indulge me and explain it again. Preferable briefly so I can see the tree in the woods.
If what I have explained to you from the Holy Scriptures, through my previous posts was no suffice , here goes what said my Master, and I hope that you yourself understand what my MASTER preached, as He Himself said: whoso readeth, let him understand. Matthew 24 King James Version 1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the BEGINNING of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the END, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the END come. 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before.
If I may interject, @AnglicanAgnostic is asking you to give contemporary examples of what you’re talking about, not for you to quote scripture to him. Can you do that?
What I said to him was exactly that which was said by my Master and I have quoted above. The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.
In other words, you have no examples to support your position. You’re just spouting random verses to sound pious.