Conservative Episcopal Bishop: Out!

Discussion in 'The Commons' started by bwallac2335, Mar 30, 2021.

  1. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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  2. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Very good. That is what needed to take place.
     
  3. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    If they receive him as a Bishop I think he should be reordained and he should be told he can't ordain anymore women.
     
  4. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Well I don't know why he would need to be re-ordained, do you have a particular reason? As for WO, yes hopefully he will see the connection between him allowing WO in his diocese, and the devastation which took over TEC and eventually decapitated his own ministry.
     
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  5. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    If he had a woman bishop present at his ordination he would need to be re ordained.
     
  6. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Women who undergo the ordination rite don't actually become ordained but remain lay. So it's as if he had his children or his wife up there. It seems more a canonical violation than anything else, in that you don't want to have laymen in the chancel and especially during the conveyance of holy orders, but it's not something that would make them invalid I would think. It's not as if they used the wrong liturgy or anything. Like, say during a war, under Muslim occupation like Spain in the middle ages, you had to conduct an ordination inside a mosque: that would be a violation, but wouldn't disqualify the orders you've received. Although I'm open to being corrected on this.
     
  7. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    I am just leery of letting in not validly ordained ministers and bishops
     
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  8. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

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    Not to derail this thread, but I thought some might be interested at how one goes about researching succession. I have to do this all the time since I work with all of the international provinces of the Orthodox Anglican Communion and screen applicants who wish to join the Communion. The Africans are hard. The South Americans usually eventually produce a link to +Max Broussard, who was a TAC/ACA bishop, or ++Carlos Duarte Costa, who founded the Brazilian Independent Catholic Church.

    So, +William Love's succession looks like this:
    William Love was consecrated by Frank Griswold in 2006
    who was consecrated by John Allin in 1985 (interestingly, the last presiding bishop of TEC to oppose women's ordination)
    who was consecrated by Arthur Lichtenberger in 1961; you get the idea​

    Some of the hardliners in the ACC or APCK might object to Love's orders, since he did not receive ordination until 1992 and they tend to be suspicious of any Holy Orders bestowed after 1978. Generally speaking, his line would be acceptable to most of the Anglican world. There is the separate issue of his own involvement with the ordination of women. Some would argue that this invalidates his bishopric. I think the more catholic position would be to argue that his activities were schismatic and he should repent and possibly do penance.

    My jurisdiction has, a couple of times, received bishops who had some issue or other. In such cases, they were not immediately received into the College of Bishops but were instead issued faculties to operate as priests for a set time (their penance I suppose) with a provision to reevaluate their standing at some later date, usually 1 year.
     
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  9. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    Would not following the Augustinian thought of the Sacraments say that even heretical priests can perform the sacraments as they does not rely on the belief of the priest and Bishops but on the Sacrament being performed in a valid manner by other people who are able to perform the sacraments
     
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  10. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Before we assume the Right Rev was not validly ordained or made a bishop? It looks like he was made a bishop by Frank Griswold
     
  11. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    Of course this position is correct. It is in keeping withy the arguments surrounding the Donatist controversy. Donatism is a heresy which strives for a perfect Church without forgiveness. This means that some, in protecting the Church from Heresy may fall into heresy themselves.

    XXVI. Of the Unworthiness of the Ministers, which hinders not the effect of the Sacraments.
    Although in the visible Church the evil be ever mingled with the good, and sometimes the evil have chief authority in the Ministration of the Word and Sacraments, yet forasmuch as they do not the same in their own name, but in Christ's, and do minister by his commission and authority, we may use their Ministry, both in hearing the Word of God, and in receiving the Sacraments. Neither is the effect of Christ's ordinance taken away by their wickedness, nor the grace of God's gifts diminished from such as by faith, and rightly, do receive the Sacraments ministered unto them; which be effectual, because of Christ's institution and promise, although they be ministered by evil men.

    Nevertheless, it appertaineth to the discipline of the Church, that inquiry be made of evil Ministers, and that they be accused by those that have knowledge of their offences; and finally, being found guilty, by just judgment be deposed.​
     
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  12. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

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    upload_2021-4-3_17-41-30.png
     
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  13. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Excellent!! So many congratulations to his Grace. A great diocese to be a part of as well.