Christian responses to US Politics

Discussion in 'The Commons' started by Tiffy, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    That alright, in Australia we now regard football as an essential industry! On the other hand a brothel in Sydney was fined for breaching social distancing regulations! There is in this of course no evidence that world has gone made.

    Are you channelling the 45th President?

    “The Art of the Deal,” 1987: The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people’s fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That’s why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration — and a very effective form of promotion.​
     
  2. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Some correction!
    That would be exactly the excusatory narrative of a successful con man I would expect to hear from a liar and a cheat, yes. :clap::laugh:
     
  3. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    This is quite probably a 'dead cat publicly thumping on the table', to bury the worse news and get everyone talking about something other than that care home deaths are still rising exponentially over here and PPE still not universally available to care home staff. All sorts of other more important stories are being ignored by the Tory Press in order to try to stop criticism of inept and incompetent crisis management and manipulation of data and information by govt. When the Daily Mail and Torygraph newspapers print 'embarrassing' stories about a Tory government you can bet that there is a deeper and less obvious motive than just profitably increasing sales of their newspapers. This twat was far enough away from govt. to be able to attract attention away from govt. action while encouraging breaking of lockdown, while govt. can lift it's hands saying "not our fault, he's only an advisor". They can still advise lock down, while many top Tories secretly want and encourage govt. and people to break it. This may seem over Machiavellian to you but we now have an extremely cunning bunch of political confidence tricksters in power over here.
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    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  4. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was alllowed to exercise authority for 42 months.
    Rev.13:5.

    Trump was sworn in on 20th Jan 2017. That will make 20th October 2020 a significant date for Trump. His 42 months would be up so we'll then know if he had fit the bill. :laugh:
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  5. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Those are some haughty words indeed. Words of love, or words of hate? :thumbsdown:

    1Co_15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

    That chapter of Revelation goes on to say that the beast will blaspheme against God and the saints, and will overcome the believers by means of war.
    Look here:
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/10/trump-calls-prayer-highlights-covid-19-sacrifices-/
    and here:
    https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/trump-prayer-school-public-guidance
    and here:
    https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...prayer-on-a-regular-basis-in-this-white-house

    Does this sound like a man opposed to God? A man with the spirit of antichrist? :no:
    Really, let's not be so uncharitable. :sick:

    Isa_5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
     
  6. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you are so upset about then. If he's re-elected for another 42 months or thereabouts he'll obviously not be the one, will he!
    It's only if he's not allowed to continue exercising his authority that you have anything at all to worry about, surely.

    Ca'iaphas was a really religious guy, prayed a lot publicly but was quite anti-Christ considering he actually accused him, tried him and instigated Christ's execution. What makes you think The Beast will not have all the outward form of religion but deny the power thereof? 2 Tim.3:1-5.

    I'm not saying he is. I have no special powers of discernment concerning him. We simply do not know yet, do we.

    I'm simply saying, in this coming November election there is more at stake for your President than even he realises, given how reliant he is on the mid west bible belt vote staying up for him, and that coincidentally his term of office could end in its 42nd month. It may not. He may get a second term, but then again? He'd better hope that if he goes for all out release from lockdown he does not get peak after increasing peak of sudden unexpected deaths, leading up to Novenber 6th.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not hoping he is. I'm hoping he's not. I'm hoping he can get you all out of this COVID mess with as few deaths as possible and as little damage to your economy as can be managed. That will take a miracle though at this point in time.
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    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  7. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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  8. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    The only way a sitting US President gets just 42 months in office is if he dies in office (or takes over for someone who died 6 months into his term). If he loses the election in early November, he continues in office until January. The 42nd month in office happens to be July, not October.

    And I'm not upset (but I am through biting my tongue). I'm disturbed and disgusted to see a professing Christian committing blatant libel and displaying a spirit that is not of God, and at great length. Someone needs to read 1 Corinthians 13 every day for the next two months, plus have a long (non-spousal) pastoral chat.
     
  9. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Well that settles it then I suppose and you are right it is July that is his 42 month so in fact he would have until the 20th of August, but as you point out he's still allowed to continue exercising his authority until January sometime, so we can all rest easy in our beds that he can't possibly be the first beast of Revelation. Just the guy responsible for denying that COVID was dangerous, labeling it a "Hoax", leading to a death toll of more Americans than died in the Viet Nam or First World wars. Not the kind of legacy he would have wanted for his first term I'm guessing.
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  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    What a nasty, sneaky virus this is:

    We now know from many source that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 spreads:
    • when people breath, not only when they cough
    • from patients free of symptoms who get symptons later (presymptomatic)
    • from patients who never get symptoms at all (asymptomatic)
    • from patients who’s cases are so mild that they are never considered for having COVID-19 (sub-clinical)
    • and, of course, from infected people with symptoms, as well.
    Any relaxation of social distancing therefore will have to be done carefully and progressively not unadvisedly, lightly or wantonly but discreetly, advisedly, soberly and in the fear of God.
     
  11. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    And of course we could add to that list: By Contact with surfaces infected with the virus, which can persist for as much as a week under conditions favourable to it. Touching the surface, then tranfering infection to eyes, or mouth can also result in infection.

    All this makes it, (if not actually designed as a weapon of war), surprisingly effective, as if it had been designed to behave as it does in the human population.
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  12. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    I don't know but when all you can come up with is a rich old man who sniffs girls, or a rich old man who grabs 'kittens', it looks seriously like no one else really wanted to apply for the job. :laugh:
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  13. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    When Trump was elected, little did he know!
     
  14. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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  15. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    CovidCasesMay10.png

    I understand that there are different viewpoints. More that half the deaths that have occured in Australia have been where there has been a breach in infection controls. There will be economic consequences of the actions that we have taken. And we have to ask ourselves, are we prepared to put people before profit? And for those of us who believe that we are following Jesus we might ask ourselves where Jesus would see the balance. We are getting ready to start rolling back some of the restrictions, and hopefully we will manage that well. You may call it an over-reaction, however I would not see it as such. Has it resulted in a curtailment of some of my individual liberties for the good of all in the short term. Well, yes it has, and I think that is part of the social contract where we have to find a balance between personal good and the well being of all. Really it is the same as paying tax.

    I think my point is we to have some sense of the scale and enormity of the problem.
     
  16. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    A well researched article where data is accurately presented.

    The real problem with the covid crisis is the fact that the world is grappling with two distinct but intimately related and dependent issues.

    1) The virus, infection and morbidity.

    The virus is obviously peculiar and unusual in the way it incubates, infects and affects it's victims.
    In some people and certain ethnicities it is more lethal than others.
    A danger exists of a runaway infection rate. The 'R' factor must be kept below 1 or an exponential infection rate inevitably results, as with any other pandemic spread.
    The only way to keep the 'R' factor below 1, until an effective vaccine and imunisation is possible, is social distancing, increased personal hygiene, Personal Protective Equipment and testing with follow up and isolation of spreaders.

    2) Economic chaos caused by essential defence strategy against the increase of 'R' rate of infection in populations.

    Most western countries are economically dependent on transactional interaction for personal gain, for population wellbeing and survival.
    If you (cannot/do not/will not) work for me profitably, I will not pay you. If you will not pay me according to my value to your enterprise I will not work for you.
    Your health and welfare are your own affair, I am only interested in your efficiency in providing me with profit. Your enterprise is of no interst to me because I have no reward for the profit I deliver to it other than the meager wage I get.

    The economic assumptions underlying overt capitalist philosophy, (predominantly adopted in western civilisation), are in direct opposition to the only effective means of reducing the 'R' infection rate and therefore the proportional death rate of the covid virus pandemic.

    It is the "Am I my Brother's keeper?" attitude, of those who care little for their 'brothers and sisters' welfare, both Emloyer, Employee and Governments, that constitutes the 'intractable log jam' in dealing effectively with this pandemic virus plague.

    What is needed is an application of a different kind of economic mindset, such as THIS:

    "For the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the marketplace, and to them he said, ‘You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing. And he said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’ They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’ And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.’ And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius. And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house, saying, ‘These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’ But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? Take what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you. Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’ So the last will be first, and the first last.” Matt.20:1-16.

    The big question is: Where does money come from? Who produces it, controls it's distribution and apportions it, according to which criteria, Kingdom of Heaven principles or Kingdom of Satan principles? Matt.4:9.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
  17. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Vitamin D: everyone go outside and get some sun every day! Research at Northwestern University shows a link between low Vitamin D and high Covid mortality.

    "After studying global data from the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, researchers have discovered a strong correlation between severe vitamin D deficiency and mortality rates.
    Led by Northwestern University, the research team conducted a statistical analysis of data from hospitals and clinics across China, France, Germany, Italy, Iran, South Korea, Spain, Switzerland, the United Kingdom (UK) and the United States.
    The researchers noted that patients from countries with high COVID-19 mortality rates, such as Italy, Spain and the UK, had lower levels of vitamin D compared to patients in countries that were not as severely affected.
    This does not mean that everyone — especially those without a known deficiency — needs to start hoarding supplements, the researchers caution.
    “While I think it is important for people to know that vitamin D deficiency might play a role in mortality, we don’t need to push vitamin D on everybody,” said Northwestern’s Vadim Backman, who led the research. “This needs further study, and I hope our work will stimulate interest in this area. The data also may illuminate the mechanism of mortality, which, if proven, could lead to new therapeutic targets.”
    The research is available on medRxiv, a preprint server for health sciences.
    Backman is the Walter Dill Scott Professor of Biomedical Engineering at Northwestern’s McCormick School of Engineering. Ali Daneshkhah, a postdoctoral research associate in Backman’s laboratory, is the paper’s first author.
    Backman and his team were inspired to examine vitamin D levels after noticing unexplained differences in COVID-19 mortality rates from country to country. Some people hypothesized that differences in healthcare quality, age distributions in population, testing rates or different strains of the coronavirus might be responsible. But Backman remained skeptical.
    “None of these factors appears to play a significant role,” Backman said. “The healthcare system in northern Italy is one of the best in the world. Differences in mortality exist even if one looks across the same age group. And, while the restrictions on testing do indeed vary, the disparities in mortality still exist even when we looked at countries or populations for which similar testing rates apply.
    “Instead, we saw a significant correlation with vitamin D deficiency,” he said.
    By analyzing publicly available patient data from around the globe, Backman and his team discovered a strong correlation between vitamin D levels and cytokine storm — a hyperinflammatory condition caused by an overactive immune system — as well as a correlation between vitamin D deficiency and mortality."
    See the rest of the article here: https://archive.fo/3s2Bf
     
  18. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot more work to be done in this area. The mortality rates between Germany and Italy,
    CividStatsAndMortality.png

    Would seem counter to the proposition suggested. Given the American cult of clean and stunning health system to envy of much of the world, the outcomes seem to suggest that there are other things in play. The difference between to Caseload to the Fatalities in some jurisdictions is significant, Belgium and the Netherlands as against Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. There is a lot more work to be done here.
     
  19. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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  20. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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