Christian responses to US Politics

Discussion in 'The Commons' started by Tiffy, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    This video has been removed for violating YouTube's Community Guidelines.

    https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-AU&gl=AU&ceid=AU:en

    I gather that the normative death toll for the flu in a year is around 50,000 worldwide. As the death toll from Covid 19 is now over 200,000 and indeed over 50,000 in the US alone, it deserves some concern. I am always ready to be concerned about the manipulation of the people by the media, and certainly there are reporters who happily overcook stories in their attempt to sensationalise and titivate information for the purpose of making money and advancing their importance. Indeed there are any number who will do that shamelessly beyond belief and before our eyes.

    If we go back 500 years ago to the English experience following the conquest of Henry Tudor with an army from the slums of Calais there were regular and seemingly seasonal outbreaks of the sweats in England, which they had little capacity to deal with, and was a major driver in the Court going of progress to get out of town and away from the disease. The only real tool that had in dealing with the disease was to stay away - what we might refer to as social distancing. For all that has advanced in the last 500 years, this is still the primary tool, as indeed it was for dealing with leprosy in the days Our Lord walked upon Earth. 100 years ago this was the primary tool we invoked in managing the devastating effects of the Spanish Influenza Epidemic.

    That being said, we should be concerned, we have a duty of care to our fellow citizens to follow the health advice and the general directives. Yes it does impinge on our freedoms, but responsibly for a reason and for a season we must walk this way. In Australia we have had 84 death so far. In a typical year we have around 2000 death from flu. I expect our flu deaths to be down this year for a number of reasons, including that number of those with other conditions may have contracted Covid 19 and not survived, the has been a massive uptake in flu shots in concern for the double whammy effect. There has been a significant ramping up of the health system in wake of concern about an impending crisis.

    I fear that one of the byproducts of the events will be seen in an increase in suicide as a result of economic stress, cabin fever, and the sheer loneliness experienced by those who lack info-tech skills.

    It should remind us all, that whatever the progress we think we have made, our grip on the place we have on the earth can be challenged by the smallest of things.

    Keep us Lord, under the shadow of your mercy.
    Sustain and support the anxious,
    Be with those who care for the sick,
    and lift up all who are brought low;
    that we may all find comfort
    knowing that nothing can separate us from your love
    in Christ Jesus our Lord. Amen.
     
  2. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Following up from this observation:

    No laughing matter though actually:
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    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  3. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I figured it was only a matter of time before it would be pulled. The CEO of Youtube stated, flat out, on CNN that they were actively looking for and removing any videos that did not agree with the assessment of WHO. Obviously YT does not intend to allow dissenting opinions or narratives that don't support the global objectives. Pravda has come to the West, not just in YT but in wide swaths of media.

    Oh, it must be far higher than that. The US alone typically has anywhere from 20,000 to 60,000 deaths annually attributed to flu.
     
  4. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/qa/how-many-people-die-from-the-flu-each-year-in-the-us

    USA 8-20 Thousand

    https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/...rom-the-flu-each-year-and-how-is-it-prevented

    Worldwide 56 Thousand

    In relation to the World Health Organisation, in general I would assess that they were at least aiming to be science driven and absolutely a-political. In practice that does not always work. There is to my knowledge only one world leader who is especially questioning their role in this matter, and given the impact it has had in that nation he may well be searching for someone to blame.

    It may well transpire that the Trump Card is simply the Joker.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  5. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    America reaches and passes another grim COVID19 milestone.

    For those who are unconcerned at COVID death toll and want to dispense with social distancing and restrictive measures, a comparison with various other events helps put this phenomenon into perpective. Few would consider 9/11 for instance 'uneventful' though there were those in the USA who tried to ignore the Viet Nam War death toll and pretend it didn't matter much.
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    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  6. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    This is extremely interesting. Since Covid came on the scene in January and February, I have done internet searches several times to pull flu death stats that I could compare to Covid estimates. I looked for mortality rate as well as total deaths. On total deaths I consistently would see statements that US flu deaths range from 15,000 to 60,000 annually (but it varies year to year). Botolph, your response prompted me to do an identical search today. Suddenly, search results are pulling up some new pages with astounding statements. For example, Huffington Post (extreme left wing) says the flu numbers that have been reported all along are wrong, they're too high! Meanwhile, some of the pages I've seen in the past no longer show up in the search; they seem to be getting replaced by pages that have new flu numbers.

    Obviously, if they cannot get the scary-high Covid death numbers they had advertised and people can see it hasn't killed as many people as influenza, their next step is to change the influenza death numbers so Covid becomes the killer king. Anything to maintain their narrative.... Pravda at its finest.

    But here's a page they haven't gotten to yet: https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/ Associated Press reported 80k US flu deaths in 2017-'18 flu season. "Typical: 12,000 to 56,000" in US "according to CDC." See, back in Sept. 2018, long before Covid, these numbers were being reported routinely. But watch those numbers change next month, like an odometer being spun backwards!
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  7. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    This to me says everything:

    Screen Shot 2020-04-29 at 11.01.21 AM.png
     
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  8. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    If the wealthy elites win, they will write the history to suit their narrative and yes, Trump will be given the blame. But when we get to heaven, I predict we'll see that Trump was the one guy the elites couldn't buy.

    Stalwart: yep, Owens nailed it; it's a miracle wrought by the MSM, CDC, WHO, and a few other well-placed groups!
     
  9. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    So what do you glean from this? That ALL the extra American deaths, (now greater in 3 months than the 10 years of the Viet Nam war or WW1), are due to influenza.

    That's one huge rise in influenza deaths!

    If not influenza, what do you actually put all the extra, above average deaths down to? Understandably Gun killings are so far down, automobile accidents down, industrial accidents almost non existent, (apart from medics), suicides (not sure about that), other causes such as terrorism, crime etc.

    If not attributable to all of these then perhaps a virus which causes catastrophic failure of lungs and internal organs, resulting in oxygen starvation due to suffocation or precipitating other organ failure in a percentage of sick but also some otherwise healthy people?

    I can't understand why you are all so desperate to blame the sudden increased death rate now highest in the world of any single country by far, on (something else) rather than COVID19. What is wrong with you?

    Is it just because your idol said it was nothing at all, a hoax and so you and he still can't admit he might have been wrong?

    That is how I would imagine the population remained fanatically loyal to the beast. Revelation 13:4. Something very odd is going on over there. Interesting that Trump is just coming up to 42 months in office come 19/Dec/2020. Not that I am suggesting he is clever enough to be you know who. :laugh:
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    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  11. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    This is a must-watch 10 minute video. This explains (indirectly) why the Covid death rate is so high on the US east coast, and why the US has 25% of the world's Covid deaths but only 4% of the world population. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR05LEDo5nM Hurry and watch this before YT removes it.

    Tiffy is right, something odd is going on over here!
     
  12. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Wait a minute, do you actually believe there have been 1,000,000+ deaths from Covid19 in the US? I thought smoking drugs was illegal in the UK.

    Excuse me, my "idol" is keeping the country in a prison camp, and your Boris Johnson "idol" has dispelled any hopes of restoring your country out of their own prison camp. How about you keep your insults to yourself?

    Right :rolleyes:
     
  13. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    It timed out on me. Wrong date: Trump will have been 42 months in office on 19th March 2020. Also edited out the 1,000,000 crazy figure, quite wrong, my error. Far too many noughts. Not yet anyhow.

    Actually 42 months is 3.5 years, I think, and Pres Trump has been in office 3.41666666666667 years today.

    Scarey innit. :laugh:
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    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  14. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we need to be in a contest to determine who has the silliest leader, though I admit that there is a deal of competition.

    https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-AU&gl=AU&ceid=AU:en

    Regardless, even allowing a 10% margin of error the figures here are significant.

    Our primary response has been the question of wash your hands and keep your distance. Pretty much the way the ancients dealt with leprosy and the medieval folk dealt with the plague and the sweats.

    There is a school of thought that suggests that we should expose and so allow the fit to survive. The long term advantage or otherwise of such an approach seems doubtful, and certainly somewhat uncaring. No doubt in due course the results of the Swedish approach will be apparent.

    Many of us seem to be feel we have been 'grounded' by our respective governments. We have been in lockdown for nearly two months and it seems that we may be through the worst of it, though for us the flu season is about to begin, as we are going into winter. Ou restrictions are due to change of Friday where two adults will be able to visit friends and neighbours maintaining social distances, in an effort to try and manage some of the mental health issues brought on by social isolation. This has been particularly hard on the elderly.

    We need as communities to reassess our priorities. We have an absurd debate about football being an essential industry. Our Government has released a contact tracking App to hopefully give them the tools to track contacts and more effectively and quickly isolate problems before they arise. Of course this leads to a whole host of perceived privacy issues, yet it seems to be a good idea. We might surrender our liberty for a time in order to achieve a desired outcome, though once achieved we need to regain it.

    The economic burdens of what we are doing today may yet have consequences for a generation yet unborn.
     
  15. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    upload_2020-4-29_15-42-57.png


    If I had your lack of tact Tiffy, I'd ask you how it felt to be a part of an ideology which is causing tens of thousands of human deaths.
     
  16. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    The simple answer to your question is, "I'm not in charge of the UK". The responsibility for what is going wrong in the UK is entirely the Tory Party, who chose the Prime Minister, and those who voted it in as Government with him at its head, to choose the courses of action it has decided upon.

    By the way the NHS is now getting back into normal mode gradually and people with life threatening issues are being encouraged to present themselves for diagnosis and treatment, though many are still reluctant to place themselves in jeopardy in hospitals where some staff still lack the required Personal Protective Equipment even now.

    Don't talk to me about ideology, we have had enough of that 'eugenics' stuff coming from 10 Downing St.
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  17. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Nope, he could never be Voldemort. :p
     
  18. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Some more data for you to consider Tiffy, brought to you by none other than Elon Musk:

    upload_2020-4-29_22-59-33.png
     
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  19. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    You have to admit, :hmm: Gov. Newsom is getting closer with every wild guess. :rolleyes:

    Give him another six months of practice, and he'll be hard to beat at darts!
     
  20. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    https://www.theguardian.com/world/n...rus-map-of-the-us-latest-cases-state-by-state

    https://www.npr.org/sections/health...king-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus-in-the-u-s

    I have not been following the US specifically, far more interested in my own neck of the woods. I do note that according to this data the death rates per 100,000 people in the population are markedly different:
    • New York - 117.8
    • United Kingdom - 39.0
    • California - 4.7
    • Australia - 0.4
    On those numbers I would think that the Government in California is doing a reasonable job.

    I would be far more interested in outcomes that I am with predictions. I realise that there are any number of factors that may come to bear on the results in a given area. At the end of the day, I hope we are all seeking better outcomes for all of humankind.
     
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