Christian responses to US Politics

Discussion in 'The Commons' started by Tiffy, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    It certainly is pleasant, my not knowing what he said. The ignore feature works really great. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss! :)
     
  2. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Point taken. It's better after moderation, I admit. Moderation is always a thing to be aimed for. Bull is quite enough.
     
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  3. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Trumpeting Tweets blamed for nations truth decay. Cavity in the Whitehouse still needs filling. An extraction is overdue.

    :zipped: :hacker: :violin: :pray::pray2::pray5:crosssign1:
     
  4. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  5. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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  6. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Is the USA still a Democracy?

    I mean is it oficially a dictatorship yet?

    At what point can a proven vote of the people for someone else, remove a sqatter from the White House?

    Do you have bailiffs over the pond?

    "Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in agreement and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same purpose. . . . . there are quarrels among you, my brothers and sisters. What I mean is that each of you says, “I belong to Trump,” or “I belong to Biden,” or “I belong to Obama,” or “I belong to Christ.” 1 Cor. Ch. 1.

    Apologies to St Paul who wrote to the Corinthians warning them of the dangers of succombing to 'a party spirit'. The truth warping ability of an unclean party spirit is obvious for all to see, (unless one is enthralled by it).

    "Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God". Gal.5:19-21.

    "A house divided against itself cannot stand". Matt.12:25.
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    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020 at 5:20 AM
  7. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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  8. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    https://www.theepochtimes.com/georg...f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mb-2020-11-19

    Thousands of questionable ballots. Stacks of them have the oval 'bubble' filled in to perfection next to Biden's name (as if duplicated on a printer?) but no votes for other candidates on the ballot. Stacks of 'mail-in' ballots with no creases from having been in a mail envelope. This is the recount that Georgia just 'certified' as accurate.

    It seems obvious that Biden pulled ahead in the voting thanks to the support of the manufacturing sector.
    Specifically, ballot manufacturing.

    With the large amounts of paper pulp needed to make all these Biden ballots, is it any surprise that we're in the midst of another toilet paper shortage? ;)
     
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  9. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    The Epoch Times is a far-right international multi-language newspaper and media company affiliated with the Falun Gong new religious movement, based in the United States. The newspaper is part of the Epoch Media Group, which also operates New Tang Dynasty Television. Wikipedia

    If I was to utter the level of mistrust in the US electoral process that Trump does, I would be written off for my anti american sentiment. The level of wholesale collusion that would be required for the massive fraud that is being suggested is something that I doubt could be contained in a nation who sees its foundations in liberty, fraternity and equality.

    We have experienced this is Australia as well, and it is most intriguing that a respiratory pandemic seems to have so many of us running out for toilet paper, it is as if we all have dunny brains.

    It has however resulted in a very effective on-line business making a considerable headway on the market. We did buy a box, and whilst it is fun, it is also very high quality bogg rolls.

     
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  10. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Wikipedia is dominated by extreme-left bias. :thumbsdown: But even taking the quote at face value, so what? Yes, Epoch Times definitely leans conservative; yes, its founder practices Falun Gong religion; so what? The article details what several witnesses (some of whom are Democrats and have no motive to lie for Trump) saw during the GA recount. Are we to discard the news report of their testimony simply because we are opposed to the religious beliefs of the newspaper's founder? (Incidentally, one of Falun Gong's prime tenets is truthfulness.) Or because the paper opposes the progressive bias of MSM? MSM won't report any such facts because they are devastating to their position and goals, preferring instead to repeatedly lie that "there is no evidence whatsoever" of election fraud, so it is good that someone will report the existing evidence and expose the lie. We need to hear both sides, don't we, before we make up our minds? The value of reporting on both sides, believe it or not, is why our First Amendment protects 'freedom of the press.' :thumbsup:

    Those are some nice rolls you have down there! :clap:
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 1:41 AM
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  11. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Where our information comes from is as important a factor as the veracity of the information itself. It often tells us how trustworthy that information may be or how slant and bias might be attempting to mislead.

    Some extreme right groupings regard any truthful report as having extreme-left bias. Some extreme left groupings regard any truthful report as having extreme-right bias. Their issue is actually with truth and therefore such groupings are also anti-Christ in their religious affiliations and moral outlook.

    There has been a judicial enquiry into voting fraud and no substantial evidence has been unearthed. Trump and his supporters are getting desperate and will do almost anything to discredit the vote of the American People, malign the electoral process, accuse the judiciary of bias and dishonesty but, as yet, they have not actually come up with any concrete evidence of vote tampering on the scale necessary to overturn the declared results.

    As I have previously said in this thread, some fraud can be found on both sides if a thorough examination is made. Not all voters are honest or even sane. The issue however is not if there has been ANY fraud. Both Democrat and Republican voters are subject to temptation to dishonesty and the possibility of insanity. The ISSUE is if there has been SUFFICIENT fraud to affect the outcome, and apparently there seems not to have been. Unless, that is, that you have become convinced that ALL American elections are as rigged and crooked as any third world dictatorships, (which Trump has historically implied certain Democrat politicos should return to).

    Are you admitting that a great constitutionally based democracy like the USA has become so corrupt after 4 or more years of Republican Rule that elections can be 'rigged', or are you implying it has always been so for Democrats but not for Republicans, or are you saying you believe every official public servant in the USA has colluded to defraud the electorate because they are ALL Democrats?

    Sooner or later the truth will out. Luke 12:3. "this child [Christ] is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; [and in the world] and for a sign which shall be spoken against; (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

    It would be very hard to keep such a big lie secret, don't you think Rexlion?

    Time for Trump to concede I think, otherwise be regarded by history as a dangerous, psychopathic seditionist.
    .
     
  12. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 6:30 AM
  13. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    Fyi to my intermational friends and those Americans who are unaware: America is not a democracy. It is a Constitutional republic which has aspects of representative democracy and has taken on a more democratic nature over time. But it remains a constitutional republic.

    The Framers of the Constitution distrusted the instability inherent in democracies. Which is why only one half of one branch of the federal government was originally elected directly by the people (the House of Representatives), all others were elected through indirect processes (the Senate and the President/Vice President) or weren't elected at all (the entire Judicial branch, and the entire executive branch except for Prez/Veep). All of this was done to mitigate the arbitrary and unstable effect of democracy while still allowing representation. In 1913, the Constitution was amended to establish the direct election of the Senate (who were formerly elected by state legislatures) but even then no more than a third may be on the ballot at any one election. Also of course, the electorate has been much expanded by the 15th, 19th, 23rd, 24th, and 26th amendments, as well as the Voting rights Act of 1965, from a group of white land-owning men to a pool of voters including citizens whether male or female, of all races, age 18 and older, regardless of property or tax payer status. Though in most states felons cannot vote even if they have paid their societal debts. But this is all relatively new to our history.

    I say this to say that democracy has not historically been held up as an American virtue. Liberty, and its necessary companion Limited Government, are our traditional gold standards, and to the degree democracy is at odds with them, it is also rightly limited. After all, without the guarantees of liberty, elections are merely rituals purporting to decide which master will oppress us for the next several years. Unbridled democracy is merely mob rule.
     
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  14. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    This is called an ad hominem logical fallacy. Namely, that because you cast doubt on the author, then what they said is doubtful as well.

    Plus if you’ve regularly consumed US news outlets you’d find that Epoch Times, despite being a far smaller outlet, has been known to report more truthful content than large mega news institutions.


    Why? We have a very porous election system where every region’s elections are controlled by the local party. There is no centralized election organization at all, which has always opened us up ripe for obvious fraud. Here are the numerous fraud instances from the last cycle in 2018:

    https://nypost.com/2020/08/29/political-insider-explains-voter-fraud-with-mail-in-ballots/

    https://heavy.com/news/2018/11/voter-suppression-fraud-2018-elections-state-by-state-list/

    https://bongino.com/2018-ny-times-v...easy-it-is-to-hack-a-dominion-voting-machine/

    “in April 2018, The NewYork Times published a video of a University of Michigan computer scientist, J. Alex Halderman, showing a group of students how easy it is to rig a Dominion Voting Machine. The name of the video is "I Hacked an Election. So Can the Russians." A caption next to the title read, "It's time America's leaders got serious about voting fraud”

    The fact that your news sources haven’t brought this info to you shows how corrupt your news media has become, in this worldwide omnibus propaganda conglomerate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 8:59 AM
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  15. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I will duly consider myself additionally educated on the matter. :)
     
  16. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Are you trying to tell us the entire worlds media are wrong, and Trump and his supporters are right about it? :laugh:
    .
     
  17. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    upload_2020-11-22_12-36-58.jpg
     
  18. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I do understand that there are some significant difference between Australia and the USA. Our elections are run by the Australian Electoral Commission. There task is to keep elections free and fair for all citizens. They are independent of any political party, and they determine electoral boundaries, the maintenance of electoral rolls, the order on the ballot papers, the collection and counting of votes, and the declaration of the poll. I don't believe our system is perfect, and in some marginal seats there is often talk of those who are so committed to the democratic process that they vote early and vote often (I have no doubt this stuff happens, but not on such a scale as to determine the outcome). In one case when a recount was ordered the AEC had lost a bundle of 10,000 votes, and the election was nullified and the whole state had to vote again.

    In Australia voting is compulsory, which means you have to get you name ticked off the roll, and place the ballots in the ballot boxes, though voting is secret, so a ballot may be empty or voided or valid, which will be determined at the count in the presence of scrutineers.

    In the main Australians would prefer that our elections are free and fair, than that my party of preference would retain office by fair means or foul. I am more committed to Australia than I am to a political party. There are people who keep telling me that the US system is better by far than ours, yet everything that you and President Trump are saying suggests that our system is a whole lot better.

    Surely with as much at stake as there is, and corruption as rife as your suggest, there should be a wholesale movement of ordinary citizens calling for a reform of the electoral process.
     
  19. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Or alternatively, whichever party loses the next time can use the same excuse to ignore the result, and throw spanners in the works, turn and turn about.

    Odd that Trump and his lot didn't complain about the system last time though. Ah! I get it, they won didn't they, by a small, perhaps gerymandered margin. :laugh:

    The thing that clinches it for me is Trumps history of prefering 'alternative truth' to the real stuff. Since kicking off by lying about the huge 'crowds' at his inauguration he's had 4 full years of telling porkies to the people and just can't give up the habit.

    Now outnumbered by the truth and beset by circumstance, he's self isolating at last, besieged in The White House, presumably watching Bidens inauguration platform being built on the lawn. Nothing short of another revolution or 'War of Independence' as Americans prefer to euphamistically call it, it seems, will be enough to satisfy his megalamaniac obsession for a big comeback.

    The long and the short of it seems to be that the American man and woman in the street knows the voting system, broadly speaking, works. It is only the extremists of either ilk that are the 'bad losers' and always kick up a fuss when they don't win, especially if they think the other side cheated more than they did themselves, and what's worse, got away with it. :rofl:
    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 4:22 PM
  20. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Of course. The whole country is abuzz about it, and it will likely be a major political topic in the coming years. However the issue is, the progress of this reform has always been gummed up in prior years.

    One of our notable politicians Tulsy Gabbard a Democrat who actually ran against Joe Biden this year, several years ago proposed a complete overhaul of the electoral certification process, with the aim to make it a non-partisan Federal Service, taking it out of control of local parties. When she advanced it on the floor of the House, she got zero Democrat votes. Not one Democratic representative supported her motion.

    Can you read the tea leaves of what that means? We basically have an entire half of the country's political structures which needs the current system to continue for its very existence. If local corruption were rooted out the Democratic Party would likely disappear from national politics altogether.
     
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