Christian responses to US Politics

Discussion in 'The Commons' started by Tiffy, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    363
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
  2. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    541
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    You're really stepping it up, aren't you? That number is terribly exaggerated. To date we have about 60,000 deaths worldwide, 7400 in the USA, and 3600 in UK. So the 300,000 number is guano.

    All the doomsday death-toll forecasts come out of Imperial (courtesy of Ferguson). Oxford's research shows drastically lower numbers, but they are denigrated. Over here, we have a nobel laureate recipient at Stanford whose data analysis suggests we should be peaking before the month is out, but hardly anyone pays attention to that because they're all being fed Imperial's numbers. A website has been set up for the "convenience" of all heads of state (including US governors) for use in decision making, and that site uses exclusively the forecast numbers from Imperial's (Ferguson's) model, even though that model has overshot every single forecast to date and even though that model never took mitigation steps into account. Every nation is supposed to have had way more deaths by now than they have, according to the Imperial estimates, but their model has proven to be totally inaccurate.

    Moreover, I have seen proof that the number of deaths from Covid-19 is being exaggerated. They are including people who have died from other causes. For example, one ballyhooed case was of an infant under 1 year of age in the Chicago area whom the media held up as a tragic, heart-rending example of this virus' dangerousness. But in truth the child had been in the hospital for 4 weeks with a severe bowel blockage and organ failure! Even if the child did contract Covid 19 at some late point in the hospital, so what? Yet they count that as a death attributed to the virus.

    All the mainstream media outlets in the US of any importance, the ones broadly considered 'reliable,' are owned by just 4 companies; the misinformation campaign to mislead the public has been in full swing for many years already. The newspapers and tv broadcasters are complicit.

    "Never let a perfectly good disaster go to waste." They are using this virus to keep the EU from flying apart in a sovereign debt crisis produced by years of negative interest rates (no one will buy the nations' bonds) from which they cannot escape. They're trying to get Germany to agree to joint debt between EU nations, a move Germany has always resisted. On our side of the ocean, they've tried everything possible to dislodge Trump from office, and now they're using the virus. They also want to take the USA down several notches so we are no longer a world power, by destroying our economy and reducing our productivity and food supply (berries and vegetables will rot in southern fields in the next 30 days if not picked by manual labor, and manual labor just became totally unavailable). Just about everywhere, they are taking the opportunity to get people to surrender many rights with the promise that it's only temporary... but will it be temporary? Through Bill Gates' efforts, they are moving toward global IDs of all humans via microchip implants which can be included as part of a worldwide "humanitarian vaccination drive." They are writing new code for a "New IP" system which will make it impossible for anyone to remain anonymous on the internet, and the New IP will have a 'kill switch' that can shut off anyone who is posting politically incorrect information.

    Do not be deceived! Human beings are as sheep being led to slaughter. I have no doubt that the Antichrist is alive somewhere in the world today. But the majority will not recognize him as such! They will think he's a wonderful man. They will take the mark on the head or hand so they can continue to buy food and earn money. We are in the last days.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  3. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    541
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    Anyone who would like to read how we got into this misinformation mess (which started with Cecil Rhoades' demonic plan) should pick up a copy of this book, The Killing of Uncle Sam: https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Uncl...86055518&sprefix=killing+of+un,aps,208&sr=8-2
    One of the co-authors, Rodney Howard-Browne, was recently singled out to be arrested and ridiculed on nationwide MSM. After reading this book, you will be unsurprised by this; it was obviously a way of punishing him and attempting to minimize what he's written. (Whether we agree or disagree with his theology is not the point, by the way; researched facts are researched facts. Read the Amazon reviews if you have doubts.)
     
  4. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    522
    Likes Received:
    568
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglican
    My data is that the death rate is about 2%. I was in military medicine for my whole Naval career. Hint, hint, I've heard some reports the average bloke hasn't.
     
  5. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

    Posts:
    278
    Likes Received:
    89
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Religion:
    none
    I don't think this mark on the head or hand is a go-er. If I was in charge of the anti-Christ's endeavours, I would use God's given marks like retina paterns to identify people in an unobtrusive and unsuspecting manner.

    We are in our last days!!!

    What makes you say this? And what time frame (roughly) would you put on this?
     
  6. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,235
    Likes Received:
    1,445
    Country:
    Australia
    Religion:
    Anglican
    Covid19Stats.jpg

    https://google.com/covid19-map/?hl=en

    These stats were as at around Midnight GMT 4 April MMXX.

    To suggest that the stats are wholly unreliable or that they are unduly influenced by other causes is not helpful. It has been acknowledged from day one that the most at risk are those with some other underlying conditions, the frail and those somewhat advanced in years. It is clear that the USA will join the 10K club any day soon.

    Now I have always enjoyed a good conspiracy theory, and I am certainly of a mind to openly question the role of the media. Indeed many commentators in the early days were doing their best to escalate the story, with alarm and panic, and indeed their ongoing habit of doing this is a concern and perhaps contributes to the number of our citizens who continue to assume it does not matter.

    As Christians we have a duty of care for our fellow citizens, and if that means that for the moment we should stay home, then stay home we must. We all recognise the intrusion of the state on the cherished freedoms of citizens has been allowed to address the pandemic. There will come a time when we will recognise that the time has past and that we must recover those freedom from the state. That time is not yet.

    Most of us no doubt realise that this is the rate of infection, or confirmed cases, not the death toll. We all make typos from time to time, especially me.

    Yes they are developing a new ip system. The problem with the current system is that too many people and devices are connected. IPV4 was based on 4 set of 3 digits is that it only caters for 1,000,000,000,000 connections. The new system IPV6 is based on 8 sets of 4 characters (numbers and letters) so providing for a great many more connections (2,251,875,390,625*2,251,875,390,625). It does not mean that there is a sinister plot, however there are those who would seek to harm us, and our civilisation, so there is a point at which our right to privacy bumps into the right of the greater community to live in security. We have to find a balance point we can live with on this stuff.
     
    Tiffy likes this.
  7. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    541
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    I'm not claiming to have any special knowledge, but my personal feeling is I'd be surprised if the Second Advent were later than the mid-2030s.
     
  8. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    541
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    The numbers I pulled were probably compiled earlier in the day and not quite as current as yours. They change constantly, of course, and some sites keep more current stats than others.

    The situation is what it is. Since we are in this social distancing and shutdown routine already, we in the USA definitely should stay in it for another week or two. But by then we should be past the peak, the medical equipment shortage will have been rectified, and we will be in better shape to handle things. Plus, our FDA has given the green light for doctors all over the country to prescribe Hydroxychloroquine for this virus, and we have 29,000,000 doses on hand with more on the way. If everything works out ok, the USA may have less than 60,000 deaths from Covid-19... which would be about the same number as from a bad flu season. We can hope. And pray!
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  9. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    541
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    By the way, I just learned that Rodney Howard-Browne and his church staff had been given the go-ahead on Thursday last week by the county sheriff to hold services, in light of all the safety precautions they were taking. Then when they held the Sunday service, the sheriff's office reneged and arrested him.

    As a consequence of this, the governor of Florida has declared all Florida churches to be "essential" and free to meet. Two more states have followed suit, and more may do so next week. That particular church feeds hundreds of families weekly and has played a large role in reducing inner city crime in Orlando. A statement on this subject by Mathew Staver of Liberty Counsel may be viewed on his FB page, https://www.facebook.com/pg/matstaver.esq/posts/?ref=page_internal if anyone's interested.
     
  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    363
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    Please accept my apology everyone for inadvertantly spreading misinformation.
    Mistaking 'Death Toll' for 'Infection Rate' was inexcusable. Mia Culpa.

    I should check my information more keenly before shooting off at the mouth.

    Back on the thread subject: We have been living in the 'Last Days' for the previous 20 centuries.

    Acts 2:17, Peter was referring to the day he was delivering his speech. James 5:3, All present tense. Heb 1:2.

    Don't be too certain that this is the end, just be prepared for it anyway. Many generations have been wrong in their predictions, this one is not more insightful than previous ones were.
    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
    Shane R, Rexlion and Botolph like this.
  11. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    541
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    Maybe I should be saying, 'we are in the last of the last days.' ;) At least we know we're a lot closer to the 2nd Advent than Peter was.

    We have seen the nation of Israel reconstituted by God in fulfillment of prophecy, after being nonexistent for more than 1800 years! The gospel is being preached in all the world, by broadcast and through rapid global travel--by ways that were never possible until recently. Jesus' message in Matthew 24 seems to be that when we see signs and things happening which must take place before the end of this age, events will accelerate and the end is not very far off.
    Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
     
  12. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    363
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    Just let us remember though that we are supposed to 'Look Up' Luke 21:28, when these things happen. These things were predicted to encorage, God's people, not just to scare us.
    .
     
  13. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    1,423
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    Country:
    America
    Religion:
    Anglican
    It could be helpful, if closer to reality. Magnifying casualties and infections — how is that any more helpful?

    For example in New York City, not far from me, it is known that hospitals will classify any deceased person found to have Covid19 to have been dead BY Covid19 (automatically, without tracing one to the other). So you will have cancer deaths and heart attacks be classified as Covid19 deaths. Now I ask you, why and in whose interest is it to magnify the amount of deaths attributable to Covid19? Who is actually profiting from this pandemic tragedy?
     
    Rexlion likes this.
  14. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    363
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    "It is known"? On what actual evidence though? In these times we can't uncritically believe anything at all, especially unsubstantiated rhumour, so it is probably best to be cautious and ask: "If I believe this, who stands to gain by that, and why"?
    .
     
  15. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    541
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    For one thing, they don't bother to do autopsies to determine cause of death (same as in Italy). For another, hospital employees see things. They talk.
     
  16. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,235
    Likes Received:
    1,445
    Country:
    Australia
    Religion:
    Anglican
    No doubt given the load experienced in some jurisdictions, and the additional precautionary measures required, it seems anticipating an autopsy in every case as unreasonable. In general practice in Australia if a person is under medical supervision and the responsible doctor is convinced that the disease being treated is the cause of death, then they would sign the death certificate stating the cause of death. Autopsies are required when:
    • A member of the family requests it
    • The is no ongoing medical cause which was being managed medically
    • There is something unknown about the death
    • Foul play is suspected
    • The police of Medicos direct it.
    Whilst autopsies do happen, it is by no means for every death.

    Although you suggest that there may be over reporting of covid 19 deaths as a result of them having multiple medical conditions which may have contributed, it is also likely that there may be many under-reported deaths relating to persons who die outside the medical system, and have not been formally diagnosed with covid 19, though indeed it may be a significant contributor to the death.

    https://google.com/covid19-map/?hl=en

    It does seem that the World Heath Organisation is f the view that the death toll is rising, and more significantly in some jurisdictions than in others.

    WHO at the time I write is suggesting some 9,643 deaths in the USA from Covid 19. Whilst there may be some latitude to think that number is a little over or under reported, there is no doubt that it is a significant number of human beings made in the image and after the likeness of God who have now departed this mortal coil as a result of the virus.
     
    Tiffy likes this.
  17. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    363
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    It would not be difficult for even the average ability doctor to decide the death of a 'heart attack' victim to be caused by COVID19 if that 'heart attack' happened in a sustained coughing fit with difficulty breathing and raised temperature preceding it for 24 hours or more. There is obvious political advantage for some rumour mongers to suggest that COVID19 death figures are inflated. The steadily increasing number of them is a political embarrassment, and the lack of adequate PPE, ventilators and inadequate initial response to the crisis an even greater one. It is our responsibility as disciples to remain skeptical in the face of politically inspired or religiously inspired rumour, from whichever politically biased quarter it may come. Mark 13:21-22.
     
  18. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    363
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
  19. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    541
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    Okay, I have some concrete information now. Our National Vital Statistics System issued a statement to medical professionals last month, providing guidelines for coding causes of death. It states in part, "COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death." (their emphasis, not mine). The document also says, "the rules for coding and selection of the underlying cause of death are expected to result in COVID-19 being the underlying cause more often than not."

    In other words, this US national directive instructs doctors to code the cause of death as Covid-19 even if they only assume that Covid-19 merely contributed to the cause of death. And there is a stated expectation that they will code the cause of death as "U07.1" (Covid-19) more often than not.

    Doesn't it seem that this standard is bound to result in over-reporting of Covid-19 deaths?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  20. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    363
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    Only in the same way that reporting 'death by gunshot' of victims getting shot but suffering from terminal cancer would skew the cancer death figures slightly, making it look like less people were dying of cancer.

    If you have underlying health issues and get CORVID19, it's not the underlying issues that actually carry you off prematurely, it would have been getting the virus that carried you off.

    The one way to be sure what's happened overall, will be to compare death figures for ALL causes in the coming months, with average death figures over say the previous 10 years and see the difference in numbers. SOMETHING will have to have caused the increase and we will be able to make a pretty accurate guess as to what that something actually was.
    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020