Christian responses to US Politics

Discussion in 'The Commons' started by Tiffy, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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  2. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    That statement can only be sarcasm or irony though.

    No one with any understading of the teachings of Jesus Christ or committed to his discipline, would be proud of hanging such signs round the necks of their children. They are just handing them over to a different kind of slavery. The salvery to sin. Rom.16:16-17.

    They didn't learn that from Jesus Christ.

    What's more they just provide ammunition for their oppressors, who will try to present their just grievances as illegitimate because their conduct actually is despicable.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  3. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    The world has no shortage of sinners or angry fools, whether wearing masks or not. Don't try to make it about masks. This was about an angry idiot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  4. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    ALMIGHTY and everliving God, who by thy holy Apostle hast taught us to make prayers and supplications, and to give thanks, for all men:
    We humbly beseech thee most mercifully to receive these our prayers, which we offer unto thy Divine Majesty;
    beseeching thee to inspire continually the universal Church with the spirit of truth, unity, and concord:
    And grant, that all they that do confess thy holy Name may agree in the truth of thy holy Word, and live in unity, and godly love.
    We beseech thee also to save and defend all Christian Kings, Princes, and Governors; and specially thy servant ELIZABETH our Queen;
    that under her we may be godly and quietly governed:
    And grant unto her whole Council, and to all that are put in authority under her, that they may truly and indifferently minister justice,
    to the punishment of wickedness and vice, and to the maintenance of thy true religion, and virtue.
    Give grace, O heavenly Father, to all Bishops and Curates,
    that they may both by their life and doctrine set forth thy true and lively Word,
    and rightly and duly administer thy holy Sacraments:
    And to all thy people give thy heavenly grace; and specially to this congregation here present;
    that, with meek heart and due reverence, they may hear, and receive thy holy Word;
    truly serving thee in holiness and righteousness all the days of their life.
    And we most humbly beseech thee of thy goodness, O Lord, to comfort and succour all them,
    who in this transitory life are in trouble, sorrow, need, sickness, or any other adversity.
    And we also bless thy holy Name for all thy servants departed this life in thy faith and fear;
    beseeching thee to give us grace so to follow their good examples, that with them we may be partakers of thy heavenly kingdom:
    Grant this, O Father, for Jesus Christ's sake, our only Mediator and Advocate. Amen.
     
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  5. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    A group of America's frontline doctors gathered in D.C. today to hold a press conference on Covid.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9yKtoYxd5Q&feature=youtu.be

    Skip the first 5-7 minutes to get to where the docs start talking. These physicians are seeing patients every day, some of whom come in struggling to breathe, and the docs are successfully treating them. Their patients are not dying; they are not even landing in the emergency room.

    A quote:
    “We have not been held down by the virus as much as we have been held down by a spider web of fear,” says one of the physicians in this video
    (8.35 mark). These doctors advocate getting the children back into school this fall like usual.

    Another quote: “There are many thousands of physicians who have been silenced from telling the American people the good news about the situation, that we can manage the virus carefully and intelligently.”

    One of the doctors stated that for people under 60 who have no co-morbidities, this virus is less dangerous than influenza. She said that widespread mask use is not necessary.

    Of course, those who hear the barrage of 'scare tactics' (billed as news) in MSM day after day will naturally feel reluctant to let go of their conception that Covid is horribly dangerous to everyone and that catching Covid is a virtual death sentence. One must ask what these doctors have to gain by risking their reputations to spread the message that we've overreacted. One should wonder how they've had such good success in treating their Covid patients.

    Has anyone noticed that, despite the great increase in Covid diagnoses recently in the US, there has not been a corresponding increase in Covid deaths? The death total is trickling very, very slowly upward.
     
  6. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    The video has been removed for breaching Youtube Community Guidelines. I will try not to imagine why. There are alternative views, and I accept that. Many of those views may be reasonable held by sane and rational people. There has been significant reporting of medical opinions in Australia at variance with some of the points you make.

    I have been looking at some stats comparing infection rates and case morbidity. I don't fully understand what drives this, however the observation is that those jurisdictions with higher infections rates appear to have lower morbidity, and the higher morbidity rates seem to have lower infection rates.

    Higher Infection Rates
    LowInfection.jpg

    Higher Case Morbidity Rates
    HighMorbidity.jpg

    Whilst the US has had a higher infection rate, it certainly has maintained a lower case morbidity rate.

    European Nations have generally maintained lower infection rates and higher case morbidity rates.

    Maybe there is some difference in strains of the virus, I don't know, but I do feel that these differences are statistically significant.


    We seem to have stopped talking about flattening the curve, and this graph may be the reason. We are not even close.
    image (4).png

    I would say, without seeking to be alarmist, we have a long way to go.
     
  7. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    a) It is very easy to get an infection from covid because it is airbourne and can be picked up by touch and tranference from surfaces, to mouth and eyes. This is because the virus is persistant because of its unusual protective fatty surface.

    b) The range of symptoms and possible morbidity seems unusually wide. A covid patient could have no syptoms whatever or have castatrophic organ and respiratory failures, and these diverse outcomes seem only marginally affected by age but significantly affected (as could be easily understood) if the patient is already very ill with some other debilitating condition or conditions.

    c) It takes only an instant to get the virus but may take weeks or months, perhaps years to die from it. The infection figures will therefore only be very losesly corelated to the death figures because of the variable time lag each patient will experience between getting covid and either enduring and overcoming it or living with its after effects or eventually dying from it. We don't yet know the extent to which a covid infection may shorten life and this will be difficult to ever really know unless we can find a way of predicting how long everyone would have lived if they had never been infected. What we do know is that some people are left with serious and prolonged health issues after many months of 'recovery'.

    d) Different countries have different levels of medical technology and different social access to medical support so it should not be any surprise at all that death rates vary from country to country and even between different ethnic groups within the same country which may have enhanced or restricted access to medical aid due to their ability to pay for it. The UK is an outlier in that respect because it has a system which is relatively universal in access to treatment for serious cases. There is a very obvious difference between rich and poor countries, but rich countries keep better statistics and really poor countries probably keep none, so we can't relay on data from South American or African dictatorships etc, even it there is any.

    e) Testing affects data in two distinct ways. Obviously if no one was tested, there would be no confirmed covid deaths, just a mysterious annual increase in deaths. If everyone was tested daily and every test was 100% accurate, (which of course none of them are), we still would not know exactly how many deaths were due to Covid because people would still die of other causes after being positively identified as Covid patients. You could be tested and confirmed Covid positive and get run over by a bus on the way back from the testing station.

    It works the other way too. The more who are tested the less the morbidity rate will appear to be, because if you only test people who are already very ill you are only sampling those who are likely to die, but if you test everyone you are sampling a lot of those who will show no symptoms and suffer no ill effects. That is why blanket mass testing would not be affective but mass testing in a specific area which is then quarateened would be very affective at stopping transmission.

    That is why prompt shut down and targeted testing plus restricted entry and quaratening has done so well in New Zealand and one or two other countries but letting the virus 'take a hold' within the whole population has been devastating in countries which allowed it free reign, leaving it untill it was too late to test, target and quaranteen effectively.

    You and I are living in one of those latter countries.

    So the death figures lag the infection figures in the same way as towing your car with a bungie rope would cause your towed car to lag behind at first, but eventually to accelerate dangerousy until it collides with the back of the tow truck.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  8. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    One of the doctors in the video (who was trained in Nigeria) made the mistake of using the word "cure" in relation to Covid treatments. This is verboten nowadays and FB used the excuse to boot it for violating its terms of service. The real reason is that these doctors dare to contradict the established, mainstream narrative being cultivated by MSM and their wealthy 'handlers.'

    But the video was captured and can be views at this blog page: https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/...aged-in-sedition-to-overthrow-the-government/
     
  9. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    https://web.archive.org/web/2017051...atures/face-masks-dont-work-revealing-review/
    This article was written in 2016 for a dental publication. (As such, it cannot be accused of conservative bias or of politicizing the Covid issue.) It examines a number of mask studies and warns against assuming that masks actually protect people from viruses.

    Folks who wear masks are okay.
    Folks who don't wear them are okay, too.
    Governments or agencies that penalize people for not wearing masks are not okay.
     
  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    The things that people believe, just because they want to . . . . amazing.
     
  11. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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  12. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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  13. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    The good doctor admits that 40% of those who contract Covid have no symptoms.
    Almost 1/2 of people who catch Covid don't even get a sniffle! Probably almost another 1/2 suffer only mild symptoms.

    But MSM makes catching Covid sound like a virtual death sentence. We're supposed to change the way we live and breathe for a virus that actually does significant harm to only a tiny, tiny fraction of the population (less than 1 person in 2,000).

    The good doctor is welcome to his opinion. But in a time when the opposing opinions of thousands of other doctors is being blocked from social media, the public at large is being prevented from making a rational evaluation of the true magnitude (or lack thereof) of the danger. I don't see twitter blocking this Dr. Sawyer from airing his opinion on Covid. Why should twitter's block on all doctors who air contrary opinions be tolerated, let along applauded?

    Until people wake up and see how they are being manipulated, we all are in peril from something far more insidious and harmful than this virus. Humanity is being guided, like lemmings, toward a deep chasm. And most of the lemmings are busy trying to drag their reluctant fellows along with the crowd.
     
  14. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    The point is they can easily pass it on to someone who may die from it. Easily leave a persistent trail of infectious viral material on whatever they touch or breathe on. They can obliviously continue to do this for 10 to 14 days, thus potentially infecting all around them, until some unfortunate person contracts the virus from them which will horribly end their life prematurely.

    Currently the UK has the highest above average death rate of any European country @ 7.5% above average. This is caused by late shut-down coupled with bad management of the situation compared with, for instance New Zealand which shut down promptly, used PPE extensively and closely managed outbreaks. They are now out of shut down but still closely monitoring the situation.

    It's a bit like sin. We never really know the damage we may be doing unwittingly by irresponsibly 'living in the flesh' rather than responsibly 'living in the Spirit' every second of every day of our lives. When we deliberately put other's lives at risk though by refusing to take necessary precautions we become culpable, even if we have no idea of the after-effects of our action or inaction. All this will get sorted out at the judgment.

    Road casualties will inevitably happen while autombilies have falible human drivers but if one drinks half a bottle of whiskey and then goes for a spin in our car leaving a trail of dead pedestrians behind us I think we would bear some responsibility for their deaths, even if we were intoxicately, obliviously, unaware we had hit anyone at all, don't you?

    Similarly, if one goes shopping with a headache, and some breathing difficulty, not wearing a mask, we may have similarly overstepped the boundary between innocence and guilt of somebody else's death, when we stand at the Great White Throne and give account of all our deeds and the motives of our hearts.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  15. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    That's too far-fetched and tenuous. Someone might, maybe, possibly pass Covid on to someone else who might, maybe, possibly have enough preexisting medical problems to allow Covid to serve as the 'last straw.' Do not think for one minute that it is contrary to "loving thy neighbor" to walk around without a mask or decline a test, simply because of some remote possibility. Otherwise, we are failing to love our neighbor every time we walk out the door and go anyplace; our breath might contain the influenza, the streptococcus, or the common cold that happens to 'do in' some old geezer, or or presence on the highway might contribute to an accident in which someone is killed, or we might step on a plant that would have somehow provided a key enzyme to cure some illness. We cannot be made to feel guilty for any of these remote possibilities!
     
  16. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Do as Fauci says, not as Fauci does?

    Anthony Fauci now says we should all wear, not just masks, but also goggles or eye shields to prevent Covid spread!
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/dr-fauci-wear-goggles-eye-shields-prevent-spread/story?id=72059055

    But apparently the Great and Powerful Oz... I mean Fauci... is exempt from his own rules.

    [​IMG]

    Most of Europe and Australia have fallen hook, line and sinker for this Bovine Scat. At least some folks in the US are resistant to the real viral disease of misinformation gone viral.
    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/...are-rising-their-lives-to-maintain-lockdowns/
     
  17. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Living in the Spirit is not about avoiding 'guilt'. That kind of midset is typical of living in the flesh. Loving God and protecting, (i.e. loving), your neighbour as you wish your neighbour to be protective of you, (and psychopaths and masochists need not apply), is living in the Spirit, as Jesus Christ commanded us to do. Mark 12:30-31.

    Caring more for your personal freedom from face covering is automatically caring less about your neighbours welfare, (particularly if they are aged or infirm).

    Won't bother anymore with pathetic excuses, take it up with Jesus.
    .
     
  18. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary, anyone who says to a Christian, "If you don't wear a mask, you're a hypocrite because you don't walk in love" is trying to lay a guilt trip. That is the message we are hearing from people who are trying to "guilt" us into wearing masks.

    I'm saying that it doesn't show a lack of love when one is convinced that mask wearing is unnecessary and of little use. I have posted plenty of evidence (as recently as post #329) but some people are have been brainwashed by the media and cannot learn anything.
     
  19. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    If one doesn't wash one's hands after using the toilet and wiping one's bum, then go straight back to making sandwiches for the sunday school picnick, (because one can't see a virus or germs on one's hands), one's a hypocrit because one would be an unhygenic fool and foolishness is a sin. Mark 7:21-23. One also would be showing a distinct lack of love by one's ignorance and unwillingness to learn sensible food hygiene for the protection of others. By accusing others of 'laying a guilt trip' when their kids get salmonella food poisening from one's dirty hands, one would simply be using the same old excuses that almost every criminal detained in US jails might come up with. "Don't you dare try to make me feel guilty for just looking after myself".
    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  20. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Now you're drawing an equivalence between the love walk and hand washing. That is another overly-broad false equivalence. If you've taken a shower and changed to clean clothes, and then you urinate, have you touched anything dirty in the process of urination?