This whole mess is horrible. And it's so hard, at least for someone like me to get news and info about COVID and the current situation from unbiased sources. I suppose I'm thankful to God that I live in a rural area, so I can bury my head in the sand a little bit. All I really have to worry about is using hand sanitizer and social distancing. The extremes that are presented by sources on both "sides" of the COVID issue are so far apart that it's hard for me to tell where exactly in the middle the truth lies.
I'm telling you, I think some nefarious group is spraying the stuff into the air here! They want to force mail-in ballots, easily manipulated for preferred election results. But lest we forget, the US is getting so many more people tested now, they're bound to uncover more cases.
I would ignore all the conspiracy theories and just concentrate on the figures. That is sobering enough without trying to explain why they are so high in terms of deliberate 'herd immunity' experiments or vote rigging. The fact is that the more people who get it and stay on their feet, the more people are going to give it to others who stay on their feet and then give it to others and so on, until everyone on their feet have got it and are passing it on still. Hence the need for staying apart, not breathing in other peoples breath and not gathering in large groups where chances are one or two at least have got it and are passing it on. It's not rocket science, its good common sense epidemiological science. Surely if Democrats can rig postal ballots Trump supporters can easily do better. He has a reputation for cheating at just about everything. He does not like losing, even at golf. .
The more people get it and get better, the greater the herd immunity. The faster it gets passed around, the faster we get past this. Hence the need to not stay apart, to gather in large groups, etc. We have the equipment, the beds, and the tests. Just about everyone has to get exposed at some time or other; it's inevitable. Let 'er rip. See, one can look at a coin from either side!
Not if you are my age and dead because someone asymptomatically infected me. Gather in a large crowd and life or death is just the flip of a coin at the moment and that applies even to some quite young people too apparently. We have even had some rare cases of young people spitting deliberately at the old to help them on their way. Astonishing how desperately irrationally angry some people can be. This business certainly can bring out both the worst and best in folks for all to see. Perhaps that's why it has been visited upon the human race, the sorting has begun. .
Sadly the logic of this approach is flawed. Flawed because it fails to account for the needless deaths of many individuals Flawed because it fails to account for the long term health deficits of those who catch the disease Flawed because it fails to account for the failure of demonstrable evidence that herd immunity is effective or possible Since the time of the Justinian Plague the proper approach and fundamental methods have not changed Identify Isolate Enforce Hygiene Measures It seems clear to me that most Western Democracies had health systems that were under resourced to deal with the Pandemic. A lot of catch up has been done, but nonetheless many are stretched too or perhaps just past breaking point. Despite having done well in Australia compared to many other countries, we are now facing a new round due to a breakdown in quarantine procedures. The US is currently showing 3.1 million cases and 134 thousand deaths. I am not sure why you don't see that as a problem. I would urge all the members of this forum to stay safe, wash your hands, keep your distance, and if you feel sick, seek medical assistance. Prayer in face of Covid 19 Keep us Lord, under the shadow of your mercy. Sustain and support the anxious, Be with those who care for the sick, and lift up all who are brought low; that we may all find comfort knowing that nothing can separate us from your love in Christ Jesus our Lord. Amen.
It isn't as simple as the meme above. "The virus stops moving, the virus dies" simply is not accurate. The virus will not stop moving! Even if everyone stayed home as soon as they felt any symptom whatsoever, there will always be plenty of transmission because the virus gets spread before symptoms develop! The virus will not stop moving, therefore the virus will not die out from isolation measures unless every person stayed away from every other person every minute of every day for several weeks. And that cannot happen because people in essential services cannot stay home, and because so many other people need to get out and obtain necessities (food, medicines, medical treatments, money to pay for rent/mortgage/food, etc.). All we could ever accomplish by all this isolating, as we did from mid-March into May (even June in some locales) is to slow the inevitable spread. Does anyone think for one minute that we can continue to isolate for another 6 months or a year, to the extent that we did this spring? That would be utter insanity! And even then the virus still could be out there. We now have the wherewithal to treat patients with the virus. Many doctors around the US have utilized treatments in their practices that were successful; many of these doctors didn't lose a single patient to Covid. Have you heard about their treatment regimens? I bet you haven't. Why not? I'll tell you why not: there are powerful, wealthy elites out there who do not want you to know, and those elites own all the major media outlets. The best thing we can do would be to share the knowledge of practical treatments that have worked, encourage at-risk folks and anyone showing symptoms to voluntarily self-isolate, and otherwise go about our daily lives. This latter would include being able to walk into one's doctor's office or clinic when one is feeling ill and get examined; for the last several months the idiocy and gullibility has induced such a panic that normal doctor visits have been impossible. When people can't even go to the family doctor when they feel sick, something is seriously wrong! And it stands to reason that of course people are going to die in droves, needlessly, when they can't see their doctor as needed. By the way, did you know that 60% of the deaths attributed (some rightly, some wrongly) to Covid in the US were of people aged 75 and up? Let's say we've had close to 140,000 deaths attributed to Covid so far, out of a population of roughly 340,000,000. That is an alleged death ratio of 0.0004 to 1. Put another way, it's 0.04%. Or 1 person in about 2,400. However, 60% of those deaths have been people aged 75 and up. The average age of death is 78. Everyone at this advanced age has one or more co-morbidity; they have an elevated susceptibility to illness. For people 74 and lower, the death rate here has only been 1 person in 6,000, or 0.016%. The risk to normal, healthy people is not very great. However, the above death numbers are artificially elevated because the Covid death numbers here have certainly been overstated; hospitals were unable to take regular patients while awaiting a 'Covid surge' that never took place; because they lost their regular income stream, they were allowed a hefty government payment for every patient who was labeled "Covid." And an even bigger payment ($29,000 per head) if the hospital intubated the patient. With these incentives, even people who tested negative for Covid were placed on ventilators (I've seen video proof posted by a NYC nurse), and others who were never tested at all were medically coded as Covid deaths no matter what they died of. All because of money. Covid-19 fear-mongering must be stopped before everything disintegrates. We need to let the at-risk and symptomatic people isolate, and let everyone else go on living, just as with an influenza outbreak. Let it run its course. When most people have antibodies the virus will die out, and then the at-risk folks can come out of hiding.
This US data is from around May 13, so not current, and the additional 120,000 deaths since them may well change some of the percentages. So since then about 60,000 americans a month have died associated with Covid 19. Now it is easy to be blase about the numbers, however each one of them is a person. Each one of them matters to God. Each one of them should matter to us. It is not I contend fear mongering to look at the statistics and be shocked. The question is can be do anything about it, and if we could would we? So this is what we know. The virus is indeed a low mobility virus. It stays active on surfaces for maybe 10 days or so. The real transmission is from infected persons communicating the disease to others. If we limit our mobility we limit our spreading of the virus, if we happen to have it. If we all limit our mobility we then do slow the spread of the virus, and indeed potentially stop it. This is the point. It is not about everyone with symptoms staying home - though they clearly should. It is about everyone staying home. Since the time of the Justinian Plague the proper approach and fundamental methods have not changed Identify Isolate Enforce Hygiene Measures 5 million people in Victoria have just be put into lockdown for six weeks. Thankfully we don't have to wait for big case loads and big death stats to know what to do. The US has already shown us what not to do. I am amazed the in a country with a strong pro-life message coming from the President, that there seems to be such a callus indifference to the lives of those already born, black and white. I believe it is quite wrong to treat Covid 19 as some sort of Cold. Indications are that those who have suffered it and survived show post infection damage to lungs and reduced oxygenation in blood where they have had a severe attack.
"...callous indifference to the lives of those already born..." I find that rhetorical statement inflammatory and offensive as well as utterly false. The leading cause of death in the US is heart disease (647,000 in 2017). Heart disease is almost entirely preventable through diet and exercise. The second leading cause is cancer (599,000 in 2017) which is also strongly linked to diet. (Read the book, The China Study, for starters). Why haven't all governments mandated that everyone practice a whole-food, plant based diet and set minimum requirements for weekly exercise for all residents? Are all nations and governments "callous" and "indifferent"? Of course not. A couple years ago we had 80,000 deaths to influenza in a single year. Were we "callous" and "indifferent" as a people because we didn't panic, didn't shut down all businesses and schools, and didn't force everyone to wear masks and isolate? Of course not. The primary difference of approach here lies not in the methodology (Identify, Isolate, Hygiene) but in the means employed (voluntary versus forced). No one has a problem with the former. The problem is the proposal to force and enforce. It supposes that the people as individuals cannot be allowed freedom to discern and decide for themselves, by balancing the issues and data and arriving at a personal choice and decision, and that therefore the state must decide for them and enforce the decision upon them even by forcible means. Liberty surrendered is liberty lost. BTW, my numbers came from the CDC website around July 1 and were then up to date as of June 18 IIRC (there's a lag time).
Whose liberty though? The North Americas fought a war of Indepence presumably to gain 'Liberty' from a King that some labeled a tyrant. (Actually he wasn't, he was just a bit nuts at the time and an inept leader, not much different than today in the USA perhaps). There is even a cracked bell somewhere, I'm told, to celebrate that supposedly universal libertarian emancipation of ALL the American people, from the British, but there were considerable numbers of Americans who considered the 'imposition' of that same 'liberty' to be an enfringement of their rights under the rule of the rightful British King. One man's 'liberty' is another man's revolution and denial of legitimate rights under the existing regime. (Regime change seem to have become a popular American policy ever since, particularly when it comes to other people's countries. ) I think public health is probably as legitimately enforceable upon the people as is public order and the rule of law, neither of which can really be seen as infringements of the right to get terminally ill yourself and infect others or the right to riot in the streets and threaten the lives and property of others by disorderly conduct, as defined by the law. We hear far to much twaddle from American freedom freaks about their right to 'freedom' when what they usually really mean is the right to do just as they please no matter how much inconvenience or death it might entail for others. 2nd amendment and NRA being a prime example but by no means the only one. The simple fact is the people simply do not and never actually have had, and shouldn't have anyhow, untrammelled "freedom to discern and decide for themselves" as you put it, in matters which profoundly affect the lives and heath of the entire USA population. Decisions on matters such as this are the responsibilty of elected government which is supposedly governing, for the people, by the people and, with the people's consent and blessing. The problem now is, in the USA you do not seem to have a government which meets those criteria in any recognizable degree so neither do you have a people willing to give it consent and blessing in performing the unenviable tasks the people supposedly have assigned it. If anything it has simply not done enough and even that, then too late. .
Perhaps some people would prefer to adopt Kenya's way of dealing with the virus. According to a RC Maryknoll missioner whom my brother is friends with, Kenya has forbidden all masses and services for several months now (that's about to change this weekend, but all must register to enter, have temperature taken, limits on how many can enter, etc.). Those who violate this rule may be fined, jailed, or beaten with a cane (I'm not kidding). Several violators have been shot and killed by police. However, it's not all bad news; for the right price the police will look the other way! Corruption is rampant at all levels. People there in Mombasa have little to eat and cannot pay their rents. Also, being stuck at home with nothing to do has exacted a different sort of toll in unintended consequences, as the lay missioner writes: "There is a big concern about the large number of school girls becoming pregnant, over 4000 in one county near here alone." I will concede that "freedom to discern and decide for themselves" is especially undeserved unto those who ridicule human freedom and the rights of life and liberty given by God to each individual, but God has given us those rights nonetheless. God calls upon us to walk in love, voluntarily, but does not call upon us to force our fellow man to comply with our own conscience and love walk. We only need look at such Marxist regimes as China, Russia, and Argentina to see the fruit of following forced compliance to its natural conclusion.
I do apologise for any offence taken. I can assure you that in no way would I think that was your true attitude, however I was trying to point out that that is how the argument you were putting sounds. I am not sure I understand why in is rhetorical. We have just gone back to Church, (following a 16 week suspension of public worship) with a seating limit of 20, and you must book in order to come, hand sanitizer on entry, No Hymns, Enforced Social Distancing, Communion in One Kind, Contactless Greeting of Peace, etc. If we breach Social Distancing rules there is a $1400 fine. Do I like this? No I don't. Do I live with it? Yes because that is what loving God and Neighbor means at the moment.
Thank you, and please bear with me as I attempt to explain what I mean. What decent human being would have "callous indifference" toward living people? No one would suppose that the great majority of Americans aren't decent human beings or that they are callous and indifferent. No sane person would suppose that Americans support deaths through disease, either. Yet you appear to have suggested that such is indeed the deplorable condition of Americans in general. I took this as rhetorical in the sense or meaning of "intended to create a persuasive impact through exaggeration" by means of connecting two disparate ideas (opposing abortion, and supporting death through disease with perhaps a racial motive thrown in). I found that exaggeration offensive in what it suggested of Americans: that in our country, callous indifference to human life is rampant, and that we are such sociopaths that we feel nothing for the plight of our fellow citizen. If, however, you did not intend thereby to insult and smear Americans, then perhaps I have misunderstood the comment. Upon re-reading what you wrote, and reconsidering the somewhat ambiguous sentence structure, it now comes to me that perhaps you only intended to smear our President. Or was there some other meaning?
No, I am just not understanding why the wisdom of centuries supported by contemporary science and medical opinion, namely that social distancing and isolation, and improved hygiene the most effective tools in defeating the virus. In reality I have no issue with your President, save when the decisions he takes on several issues has a negative impact on my retirement earnings (the blessings of a global economy). Some of what you President says does indeed sound strange to Australian ears, and no doubt some of that is due to cultural diversity. If any Prime Minister here said they were the best Prime Minister ever they would be bollocked out of office in a heartbeat. I get that it doesn't work like that in your culture. When he says he doesn't want to wear a mask because it makes him look silly, Australians in unison will smile and reflect that he does not need a mask to look silly. Australians tend to be egalitarian, and indeed cultural levellers, and I no people don't always understand that, and we simply get written off as having a convict cultural cringe. In Australia at the moment we have 9059 confirmed cases, and 106 deaths attributed to Covid 19. We are going to extraordinary lengths to beat this thing. In the United States at the moment you have 3,165,058 confirmed cases, and 135,094 death attributed to Covid 19. I was reading your posts and the sense I took of it was that you were downplaying the significance of the death toll, and arguing against social distancing, stay at home orders, and restrictions on public gatherings including public worship, preferring a notion of allowing the community to build a herd immunity to the virus. Given that there is now some plausible evidence that those who recover will be left with some long term health deficits, and that an appalling number of people who would die if left to run rampant until herd immunity would be effective, I did see that idea as callous and indifferent to the suffering those people would endure. I was not suggesting that you, the American People, or the American President were callous or indifferent, but I do think that the idea letting the virus run rampant is. When I drew to comparison to the defence of the Right to Live movement, I was really making the point that the living have a right to live, as do indeed those as yet unborn.
That's a bit of a whataboutery comment though isn't it? Every sovereign country is entitled to deal with this virus in the way it has been advised and seen fit. The USA is one that seems less prepared, less interventional and therefore less effective in keeping the deaths and infections under control by measures that other nations seem to have successfully put into effect. Obviously "Beating people with canes" would be considered inappropriate in the USA, but then so should kneeling on someone's throat until they suffocate, in order to restrain them. I think we might be in agreement that they both are unacceptable. I think your thinking here is a little confused. The issue of whether people should register is one of tracing possible future sufferers and spreaders if an outbreak of the virus has been traced to a particular person who attended a particular event or gathering. If no one knows who was there or where they can be contacted, then testing and tracing is impossible. Testing and tracing is a very effective method of controlling the R rate and reducing infections and deaths. A sensible policy BUT in any society there will be those who, through ignorance, deliberate perversity or obstinate disobedience to legitimate authority will non comply. Therefore sanctions are always necessary whenever a rule is proposed for the benefit of the community. In the case of Israel's community those sanctions ranged from fines, (sacrifices had to be paid for), to being stoned to death by the entire community for breaking the rules. Doubtless, being beaten with a cane was somewhere between being told to buy a sparrow, a pigeon or a young bullock and being dragged out and stoned to death. So I can't see why you would object in principle, (I'm not kidding) to sanctions being used to uphold the law. Surely you would not be suggesting there is something wrong with applying sanctions to enforce the law? The same thing happens in the USA if people riot and break the law. Soon as you have laws, you have to have sanctions. Rom.13:1-4. And those sanctions can go as far as is necessary to uphold the law. Rom.13:4. This is WHY it is so important for the people to be involved in ensuring the law is just and aligned with the will of Almighty God. I suggest you read through some of the social distancing laws in Leviticus to see whether perhaps the USA is guilty of some serious infringements, ( and a 'potus-priest' who has seriously not been doing his job, ) which have brought this modern plague down upon you all. Lev.13:1-59. .
This article by a British journalist who has experienced what being falsely arrested in the USA entails, may explain why the BAME community seems to be more vulnerable to covid than the rest of the population in the USA.
Now, I know the USA Deep South is a strange place, and there is an awful lot of 'fake news' on the inter sucker-fishing net, and I don't want to be seen as a taken in 'sucker', but: Can this report even remotely possibly be actually true? Can anyone over there in The land of Oz, Never-never land and Hollywood Tinsel Town tell me?
I looked this up. Apparently it refers to this officer of the Confederate Army who was a Tennesseean. He was a decent strategist and helped win battles defending the South when Northern armies pushed into Southern territory near the end of the Civil War, so there were people who remembered the good things he did for his state and preferred to overlook the bad things he did. Now the bad deeds have caught up with his 'good' local reputation. Tiffy, it's not like they had a bust of a guy in a white hood. But I think its placement was ill-advised to begin with, and it's good to finally have it moved to a museum at least. Now, just to create a little contrast, this next picture is a statue of a very racist fellow who wrote that Caucasian Europeans were clearly superior and blacks were an inferior race, but no one has bothered this statue of him. No one's tried to tear it down, break it, or deface it. Not even a smidgen of graffiti. Go figure! That big statue is on the side of a building at University of Washington, in Seattle. It's Charles Darwin.