Can the Episcopal Church be brought back?

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by anglican74, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I've been meaning to have this conversation with you all...
    There are several orthodox and well-meaning Episcopal church members among us here, and I can't seem to get a straight answer for how they hope to bring their Province back and wrest it from the control of heretics

    Once the wrong people are in charge, won't they stay in charge and just perpetuate their ilk, deeper and deeper through the church ranks?

    Something similar is occurring through the US Catholic Conference as well, and just the latest example came across my screen this morning:

    The Catholics have a famous and ultra-restorationist priest in Chicago... he runs a parish, for 20 years has formed a religious order to form more men like him, the young people flock to his parish and online sermons, so he seems to be winning, right? And yet...

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/85do7z/cdl_cupich_removes_pastor_of_st_john_cantius/

    Instantly, it's over.. the Restorationist dream in that part of the country is over

    Twenty years in the making, over in a fortnight
     
  2. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
     
  3. Flanders

    Flanders New Member

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    Unfortunately, there are plenty of examples. The Roman Church in Belgium had the fairly successful “Fraternity of the Holy Apostles”, founded in 2013 under the previous, somewhat more conservative, archbishop. They were assigned a parish in Brussels, which they revitalized. The new archbishop disbanded the fraternity in 2016, their remaining seminarians had reapply for the diocesan seminaries and a transitional deacon was refused priestly ordination. More notably, of course, there’s the closure of Mariawald Abbey, the decline of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, &c.

    And yet people keep trying. Their efforts seem Sisyphean to me…
     
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  4. Anglican04

    Anglican04 Active Member Anglican

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    RCC is in shambles man, I've been on their forums and it's constant bickering over the Papacy, if Francis was validly ordained, or if he is even the real pope. Not to mention at least 40% of them calling Amoris Laetitia, Lumen Gentium, and other Vatican II documents heretical. Some of them say it is even worse than the reformation because you cannot differentiate modernists from traditionalists, where in the reformation era, it easy to see who was reformed of papist.

    Do I think it (TEC) can be brought back? As @LowlyLayman stated, anything is possible with God. However, being that we do not know His Holy Will, I cannot be sure. Maybe he wishes for ACNA to take over and REC to collapse into it. It would take a major turn around for TEC to become actually Anglican. Tighten up on the contraception, abortion, gay marriage, gay rights, and the promotion spiritually healthy things is a must. Even then, they would have to build up for the thousands of members they lost.
     
  5. Cameron

    Cameron Active Member

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    The Roman Catholic Church has had several communities of priests who have suffered due do "incidents" which I pray will be over swiftly and without scandal. This is the plight of Christianity amongst influential humanity - the Devil's influence. He will not win, but he's trying his best.

    The Episcopal Church can save itself. Yes. It seems as though, however, to be in the claws of relativism and has lost its sense of Catholicity. The Episcopal Church is controlled by many men and women who were formed in seminaries that sought to imbue them with a utilitarian philosophy - whatever the people feel, it is the voice of God, and if it makes them happy, then it must be ordained. To me I get a sense of "God, you created us - then deal with it" from the Episcopal Church, as well as from the Anglican Church of Canada (ask me about that crowd). They've given up. They've simply given up.

    Communities of priests are being tried. So are entire Churches by their leadership - another assault from the enemy.

    We must remember something. The original evil was a sweet fruit. We would not commit evil if it was ugly. This is why the Episcopal Church has fallen so quickly, morally. Perhaps they don't recognise the evil? Perhaps they're too quick to eat the fruit that tastes so sweet?
     
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  6. Anglican04

    Anglican04 Active Member Anglican

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    Great analogy.

    EDIT: I meant to quote the analogy.
     
  7. Cameron

    Cameron Active Member

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    Which was the analogy? I think your quote glitched out my friend.
     
  8. Anglican04

    Anglican04 Active Member Anglican

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    The original sin to basically liberalism in the US. As you said, both are very appealing.


     
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  9. Cameron

    Cameron Active Member

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    Agreed agreed agreed! Thanks for quoting that full thing - I was unsure where the analogy was. I've been awake far too long!!!!
     
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  10. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Active Member Anglican

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    As said earlier, anything is possible. The Arians were once the majority of the Church. Error, superstition and outright ignorance were rampant in England prior to the Reformation. The social conditions in England were heinous before the evangelical movement of the Victorian era.
     
  11. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Thank you everyone for your considered responses...
    Unfortunately I think a few of you have misunderstood my question: for I did not mean to ask "can God perform this action"

    Practical questions like "can XYZ happen" or "can ABC occur" should not be reduced to God's omnipotence

    If a gun is pointing at one's head, my proper natural response must be to assume that the gun will not miss, that I must duck! I do not think it is rational or reasonable for someone to say to me, "with God all things are possible"

    Furthermore, while God has promised to preserve his Church, he never promised to preserve the Episcopal Church, did he? After all, we confess in the Articles of Religion that even the ancient Apostolic Sees have fallen:

    So what practical or reasonable evidence can be presented to say that this particular corner of Christ's church will indeed be brought back from the brink?
     
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  12. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Active Member Anglican

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    It sounds crass but I think the answer will be found in the next 30-50 years or so due to pure demography. TEC is dying on the vine due to aging parishioners that simply cannot be replaced. By contrast, at least from what I recall from my reading, is that the few dioceses that remain fruitful are those most orthodox or at least tolerant of orthodox Episcopalians. My (optimistic) guess is that in the next 100 years, ACNA and the few elements left of TEC and the ACC will reunite.
     
  13. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I don't think Our Lord will let TEC die as long as even a few of His sheep are found there. Semper reformandum...a reformation within TEC is already at work. A change is coming.
     
  14. Anthony B

    Anthony B New Member

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    The problem comes when they vote in the national synod to approve progressive ideology. It would have to be an act of God to turn around what the EP(USA) has done. A mass exodus has already started into the ACNA and REC from what I understand and the ACNA is almost universaly accepted in the ACommunion, hopefully this will happen soon.
     
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  15. American Anglican

    American Anglican New Member Anglican

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    As someone who goes to an Episcopal church that resembles more of an English Cathedral than anything else, I think that the liberal trends of the TEC are going to bring about their own demise. A church that is not conservative and has been corrupted by political correctness simply can't survive. I also think that many young Christians are very much looking for more orthodox or High Church atmospheres, so there is still hope.
     
  16. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    He has let the Church of Jerusalem be destroyed, hasn't he?.. God has placed no eternal security in the hands of man, for man will abuse God's security for his own power

    Perhaps this is something we can grasp a hold of... what evidence can you cite, that we can all appreciate
    I am thinking in particular of the RCC case (as above), where decades of small progress were destroyed because the heretics were in charge


    I don't dispute that there is hope, and Anglicanism in North America has looked more hopeful than it has in decades

    My only query has to do with whether this hope resides in the Episcopal Church or not

    We must perish the thought that The Episcopal Church = "Anglicanism" writ large, as that hasn't been true for at least ten years, and if we look closely (with early 2000s, and the 1970s Continuing movement), it hasn't been true for decades

    The Episcopal Church can either revive or be destroyed, with no impact on American Anglicanism, so I just hope y'all understand that we can separate the two in our minds
     
  17. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    What I do see is perhaps in 100 years when the debauched TEC will be exhausted from the last of its vices, with the last transgender 4-gender womyn priest in retirement, of a parish of 2 church ladies, that the last TEC parish will close, and then the ACNA can just come in and buy up all the buildings and take over (perhaps under the TEC banner)...

    However to my mind, for this particular thread, I am more interested in whether there are more immediate solutions, such as someone mentioning the orthodox bishops that are still fighting the good fight

    I guess I am asking if the good orthodox bishops can win this struggle? What prevents TEC from just putting a lesbian womyn bishop in place of Bishop Greg Brewer when he retires?
     
  18. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Active Member Anglican

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    Regrettably I do know very little of this. I will ask my friend who is orthodox and studying to be a priest in TEC.
     
  19. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    How can Anglicans call themselves Catholic when there is no clear consensus of opinion as to what being Anglican means?
     
  20. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    lol...aren't you a catholic who rejects vatican 2? Pot meet kettle.
     

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