1. Joshua Allen Dotson

    Joshua Allen Dotson New Member

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    Can you guys and girls tell me everything you know about Anglo-Papist? And are there different types o Anglo-Papist?
     
  2. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Hello Joshua.

    My understanding is that there are both Anglo-Catholics and Anglo-Papalists. A simplistic way of explaining the difference would be that Anglo-Catholics seek to recover that which was lost in the radical phase of the Reformation, such as a greater emphasis on the sacraments as a means of Grace, a restoration of traditional rituals, a greater reliance on the early councils and the Fathers; in other words, a desire to return to the Henrician Church period when the Church of England was Catholic, but not under submission to the Pope and certain errors had been removed. While it is often considered the equivalent of "High Church," there are many High Churchmen who would dispute this.

    Anglo-Papalists, as I understand it, seek eventual reunion with Rome, and typically seek to imitate Roman practices more than High Churchmen or Anglo-Catholics. Some go so far as to seem completely Roman Catholic, minus the pope. There are of course varying degrees, so that Anglo-Catholics, and Anglo-Papalists are not always easy to distinguish. I tend to view the Anglo-Catholics as being similar to the Old Catholic movement on the continent.

    The High Church party (Laudians) of the 17th Century have been seen by some as precursors to the Anglo-Catholic movement of the 19th Century, yet this is not really the case. The Laudians also sought to restore what had been lost in the Reformation, yet they were hostile to Rome and certainly did not seek reunion with the Papacy. They also did not mimic Roman practices to the extent that Anglo-Catholics tended to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
  3. zimkhitha

    zimkhitha Active Member

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    I guess this makes me Anglo-Catholic then (purely because it is the only Anglicanism I know). We just did not give it a name here in South Africa. I'm on the fence regarding women ordinations, not so on the fence regarding same sex-marriages, on the fence regarding the role of the so called homosexuals in the life of the church OR I'm just High-Church?
     
  4. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    The High Church fathers of the 17th, Century, referred to themselves as Anglo Catholic in many cases and there were no complaints that I can tell! It was often said in the 18th, Century that the ,'Catholic Revival,' in England was instigated by the Grandsons of the Non Jurors, ( Read Palmer's books all written in the middle of the 19th Century, he gives a vision of what should have been, ) who were Catholics having broken from a latitudinarian C. Of E in 1688.! The issues aflame at this time were ignored by an Episcopate that was purely Latitudinarian by the time of the 1840s, Anglo Catholics and High churchmen both, lost the struggle against Latitude as many of the Anglo's sought help from Rome by adapting their Anglican beliefs to the 'Roman Mission.' Selling the pass , as it were!
     
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  5. coton boy

    coton boy New Member

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    I would agree with this. Anglo Papists also regard the Pope as their spiritual leader. Anglo Catholics see him as one bishop amongst many.
     
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  6. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    can anyone enlighten me please? If a person believes in Anglo Papalism, why don't they simply become Roman Catholic?
     
  7. Toma

    Toma Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Very probably, anyone holding to Angl0-Papalism would justify themselves by using the Branch Theory. They might say: "since the Church of England & its communion are an autocephalous church and part of the Catholic church, they are in communion with Rome, conforming with its doctrines & practices, but not subject entirely to it". Why such persons don't become Roman Catholics really does confuse me. It's hard to practice & believe as Rome does without being in communion with it.

    Of course, since the Roman Catholic Church has mostly lost its exclusivist emphasis since Vatican II, it doesn't seem to matter to anyone.
     
  8. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Most Anglo-Papal Anglicans have move to Roman via the Ordinariate. Some while there realize they mistaken Anglo-Papalsim for Catholicism and have begun returning to Anglicanism.

    Fr. Mark
     
  9. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    So what's the difference between AP and Catholicism then? Semantics?
     
  10. Joshua119

    Joshua119 Member

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    Essentially, yes. There is an Anglican form of the Roman mass, an Anglican missal as opposed to the Roman missal, and some Anglo-Papalists, including those who are seeking communion with Rome, argue for the use of the KJV as opposed to any RC translations, but beyond that there is little visible difference.
     
  11. Khater

    Khater Member

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    Anglo-Papism is totally heretical. We are ANGLICANS NOT Romanists.
     
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  12. NicenePapist

    NicenePapist New Member

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    The Papacy is still regarded by many Anglo-Catholics and the Byzantine church as a primus-inter-pares. This has been the belief since even the Great Schism and before.
     
  13. Khater

    Khater Member

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    I follow the Reformers. Always remember Cranmer. I'm a Calvinist High Church Anglican, and have the same views on Romanism as Ian Paisley.
     
  14. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I don't think you'll find a single Eastern Orthodox bishop who will closely follow the teachings of the Pope, or consider him a primus inter pares. They tend to their own corner of Christianity. Anglican bishops similarly.

    The Papacy in the last few hundred years has severely damaged its credibility by trying to make itself the cosmic spiritual center of Christianity which denied original jurisdiction to every other bishop in the world (Roman catholic bishops have jurisdiction solely via the Papacy).


    Paisley wasn't an Anglican though...:hmm: In general I tend to think that hyphenated Anglicanisms, be it Anglo-Reformed or Anglo-Papal are inherently schismatic and cannot be reconciled with the Anglican tradition.
     
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  15. Khater

    Khater Member

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    I know he wasn't Anglican. I was just pointing out that my views on Romanism are the same as Paisleys. Reformed Anglicans are the Anglican tradition. Read the 39 Articles of Religion. This document is very Reformed, and I follow it strictly. That IS the Anglican tradition.
     
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  16. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    Having lived all my life in N Ireland, I used to get very angry when I hear people refer to the pope as the anti-Christ. Now I just pray for such disingenuous people. Above all, he is the Bishop of Rome, head of the Vatican State and as such is revered by billions
     
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  17. Khater

    Khater Member

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    Yes. He is the Bishop of Rome. Why does he want more authority? It doesn't matter how many people respect someone. Francis infuriated me with his address to Congress. He is a Marxist, effeminate Liberal who believes in Liberation Theology. He's a heretic even from a Catholic prospective( look up Most Holy Family Monestary)
     
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  18. Religious Fanatic

    Religious Fanatic Well-Known Member

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    So if someone believes the pope has been right on most of his doctrinal (maybe "ex-cathedra") declarations, but was wrong on the part that he can assume ultimate jurisdiction over every other church outside of Rome that nonetheless has historical succession (which according to us is ahistorical regarding the papacy) then one could reasonably be an anglo-papalist, in saying that there is still some spiritual role for Rome and it's Bishop that perhaps other churches may look to it for guidance on doctrine, yet some declarations are still not binding? Just guessing what this all means.
     
  19. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    The Primacy of Rome was discussed at the 1st Council of Constantinople, and my view is that most Anglicans with a respect for history would have some level of acceptance of that decision. The development of what that was to mean, saw attempts to extend it through the Tome of Leo, the Photian Schism, and of course the use of the Filioque Clause on the 14th of February 1014, and the events that flowed from that, is probably the area of less acceptance on the part of Anglicans with a respect for history.

    The Primacy envisaged at the First Council of Constantinople was not about authority, but precedence. This indeed matches the Gospel urging 'it shall not be so among you'.

    It is interesting to reflect on this as we see what is happening in the relationship between Moscow and Constantinople at the moment.

    The lesson of history is that we do not learn the lessons of history.
     
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  20. Edmundia

    Edmundia Member

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    I know that this is a very late response to the question of Papalism. May I suggest finding a copy of Michael Yelton's book ANGLICAN PAPALISM, it is a long but fascinating book and a good introduction to the history of the small group known as Papalists; those who followed the Roman Catholic church without actually submitting. If you can find Dr E.L.Mascall's poem (I am sure it's online) THE ULTRA CATHOLIC it tells you much of what you might like to know as well as giving you a little laughter.