What is the point of Mainline Christianity?

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by Midwest LDS, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. PotterMcKinney

    PotterMcKinney Active Member Typist Anglican

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    Flagrant opinion as in "marriage isn't really a big deal," or "multiple partners are just fine, maaaan." I'm yet to meet any Episcopalians with authority that doesn't hold a very high view of marriage. And as to mutual respect, Episcopalians almost over emphasize service to others.

    I see the Episcopal Church losing the old folks (and yes, it's the old folks) who have no sense of tradition whatsoever. The Gospel without old money tape will come around again. It'll take a bit, but the seeds of it are in there. I've seen it first hand.
     
  2. Ide

    Ide Well-Known Member

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    Basically, yeah.

    It's really a bad infestation of boomers and SJWs in many parishes. There are some dioceses and parishes which are holding out against these changes, but I doubt it will last if a new prayer book with SSM rites is published. I see a greater mass exodus coming with the next roll out. The non-sense I see in some news articles about TEC beggars belief sometimes.

    As others have suggested if you are interested in Anglicanism try looking for an ACNA church http://www.acna.org/map/ This province was started against what TEC had been doing for decades and they stick by traditional Christian, Anglican teachings and morals.
     
  3. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Midwest, when looking for a good church home, look for a pastor who shares your values. If you visit a church and it feels right, make an appointment to sit down with the pastor for an hour and see where he stands on the things that matter most. That's what I did. I found a good pastor in an ACNA Anglican Church who isn't going to support any of that sinful nonsense.

    My neighbors across the street are LDS, but for the past year I see their car just stays in the driveway on Sunday mornings. I have been praying for them, and am trying to work up the courage to go over and invite them to my church. Reading this thread gives me some hope that they might be favorably impressed with it, if they are willing.
     
  4. Fr. Brench

    Fr. Brench Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Wheaton, IL, you say? There is the Anglican Church of the Resurrection in that area/city, which is an ACNA church and therefore generally conservative in the social-theological sense. Liturgically I'm wroth even to speak their name, but given what you're looking for and asking about they might be a good place to check in.
     
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  5. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Father,

    The fact that you are loath to speak their name (liturgically) unfortunately speaks volumes regarding the viability of the ACNA.
     
  6. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    In my experience, ACNA has never been more viable than at this moment, and the “wrothful” elements of ACNA have been far more prevalent at the foundation in 2008-2010 than at the present moment eleven years later. The non-liturgical non-traditional elements in ACNA have been diminishing at least since 2014 when I’ve started to closely monitor the situation. It’s been only good and better since then. The new unified liturgies have been a very positive salutary influence.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
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  7. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I am glad to hear that, Stalwart. As an aside, I have liked everything I have seen so far of the ACNA Book of Common Prayer that is being developed.
     
  8. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Why? I'm very puzzled (not privy to the inside issue, I guess). Is it because the name isn't something like, "Saint So-n-so"? :confused:
     
  9. Fr. Brench

    Fr. Brench Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I felt like I was in a megachurch when I visited there one time. And I am very much a not-megachurch kind of person. Theologically, doctrinally, I'm not too concerned about that parish. But they made me feel like I was back in a non-denom church from the way their worship space was set up and the liturgy was executed (or rather, drowned in music).

    And to add to what Stalwart observed, my visit there was in March 2013, so a lot could have changed since then. I'm not even sure the first draft of Texts for Common Prayer had been released at that point!
     
  10. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I see. Thanks for explaining. I guess the Lord guided me into the ACNA at a very good time; I just began attending the local parish last October.
     
  11. Jeffg

    Jeffg Active Member

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    The LDS Church preaches repentance and Christ's atonement constantly, but it is also hardline when it comes to the conduct that it demands of its members.

    I think that this is part of the problem with "mainline Protestant church's"... they are not necessarilly preaching the Gospel..."Repent for the Kingdom of God is near". There's almost a fear of hurting peoples feelings, and wanting to be "politically correct and polite" They get heavily involved in the "social gospel" that they ignore the tougher stuff...like that we are humans, and sinfull. Thats tough to talk about. You don't hear the word "confession" to much any more. We get so busy being "socially active" that we forget that we area called to occasionally suffer (as Christ did) and work on ourselves as well as following the Great Commandment.
     
  12. Dingle

    Dingle New Member

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    Much of what you wrote in the OP resonates with my own thoughts and criticisms of the church. You mentioned that the church acts as a social club, and that “There doesn't seem to be anything resembling a large-scale cohesive upright community”. I agree with you on this and I think that this is characteristic of the American church, regardless of denomination and regardless of whether a church is traditional vs conservative vs liberal. I believe this is so (and again, this is my opinion) because all, or most, Christians in America have accepted the American value of freedom of religion and most believe that it is morally wrong for authorities to encourage and defend religion. In America (and maybe the western world?) the church is a social club because it is treated as a business aimed at attracting consumers. The American treats religion according to the libertarian tenant of “consumer sovereignty” and the result is people act as consumers shopping for a church that fits their needs. Conservative families look for a church that fits their doctrine, others look for a church that has good children’s programs, others look for a social group they are compatible with, etc. Also, if someone isn’t satisfied with the choices, anyone is free to start their own church, or a new denomination, or a new religion even. All churches are brought into this because it is American culture. I know that conservative churches would object and do not see themselves as a business/social club but in America a traditional Church is just one of many viable choices for a church goer to consider. It has ended up this way because most Americans hold to “freedom of religion” and believe that an individual’s choice of worship is a sacred thing that cannot be infringed upon. Another problem that this creates is church discipline doesn’t as much of an effect. Church hopping is normal and excommunication is not much of a punishment when an individual can just go to a different church with no real ramifications.

    I have tried to think of ways to counter this trend and ways to create a “large-scale cohesive upright community” but usually I am met with indifference if not hostility. For example, I have suggested to several friends that it would be great to start an actual physical Christian community. I look at my own church, and if every church member intentionally moved into a residential neighborhood together a community could be formed. A church building could be built specifically for that neighborhood and offer regular prayer and communion services only walking distance away from the homes. A community government (such as an HOA) could be setup and laws put in place to defend the church. Services such as Christian education could be easily offered to the neighborhood and it would be much more practical to care for the elderly and to take part in raising each other’s children. This vision is objected to though because of the implications of violating American ideals.
     
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  13. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I think it's important to not mistake the strictness of a religious group for orthodox, Bible-based beliefs. The Jewish faith, for example, is incredibly strict and legalistic (they have rules and ordinances for just about every situation imaginable), but they totally miss the boat on God's redemptive plan through Jesus Christ.

    Nor is it entirely accurate to assume that the most 'correct' church can be identified by the most visibly moral-looking membership. There are atheists whose standard of conduct makes most Christians look sloppy by comparison, but that's no reason to think the atheists have it right. In terms of righteousness, I don't care how 'good' a person looks on the outside, because it's what is on the inside that counts. One may refrain from sexual sins, abstain from certain foods or drinks, go to church every time the doors are open, tithe double, and look super-wholesome..... yet still be lost in sin.

    The LDS Church certainly teaches high moral standards, but does this translate to a high percentage of members having a true, genuine trust in Jesus Christ's sacrifice as their sole source of redemptive grace? Most certainly, the Bible makes clear that we cannot trust in our own 'moral living' to contribute so much as one iota toward our salvation. Nor can we trust in a temple ceremony, secret passwords and handshakes, or belief in a particular church founder (other than Christ Himself, of course).

    The LDS Church teaches that God the Father was once a man like us before He evolved into one of many Gods, and that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers and spiritual offspring of a heavenly marriage between the Father and some mother whom we do not know. Do they (LDS leadership) follow the God of the Bible who says there are no other genuine Gods besides Him? Obviously not. Do they believe in one God who is three Persons (one of whom is Jesus) who has always existed from before time and the universe were created by Him? Obviously not. These facts about our Creator are foundational to the Christian faith, and any "church" that does not teach these facts is not a Christian church other than in name and allegation. (Nor is Judaism a Christian church, even though they teach a great brand of morality to those scant few who actually practice orthodox Judaism.)

    While I recognize and respect your valid concern that many denominations have clergy and memberships who do not appear as holy as those of the LDS (and more's the pity that any genuine Christian groups would so appear), the true measure of a Christian is whether he is born again by God's grace through faith (belief, trust) in Jesus and has received the Holy Spirit indwelling him. Since God's children come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and stages of moral and spiritual development, they are not readily identifiable by appearances.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
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  14. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Is that what the LDS think the Gospel is? That explains a lot.
    .
     
  15. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Well-Known Member Anglican

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    As sadly increasingly useless many quarters of Mainline American Protestant Christianity are, they are a good sight less useless than the LDS, which preaches apostasy and heresy.