Valid consecration?

Discussion in 'Sacraments and Liturgy' started by Aidan, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    A fellow congregant and I recently had a conversation. During our conversation he stated that consecration the bread and wine only occurred if the priest believed in the consecration. I disagreed and maintained that because of his ordination, consecration occurred whether or not the priest believed it. I invite your opinion please
     
  2. Philip Barrington

    Philip Barrington Well-Known Member

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    XXVI. Of the Unworthiness of the Ministers, which hinders not the effect of the Sacraments.
    Although in the visible Church the evil be ever mingled with the good, and sometimes the evil have chief authority in the Ministration of the Word and Sacraments, yet forasmuch as they do not the same in their own name, but in Christ's, and do minister by his commission and authority, we may use their Ministry, both in hearing the Word of God, and in receiving the Sacraments. Neither is the effect of Christ's ordinance taken away by their wickedness, nor the grace of God's gifts diminished from such as by faith, and rightly, do receive the Sacraments ministered unto them; which be effectual, because of Christ's institution and promise, although they be ministered by evil men.

    Nevertheless, it appertaineth to the discipline of the Church, that inquiry be made of evil Ministers, and that they be accused by those that have knowledge of their offences; and finally, being found guilty, by just judgment be deposed.​

    The holy sacrament is the offering of the Church in union with her Lord. There is one sacramental action, and what happens is not fundamentally dependent on what I think happens, or on what the celebrant thinks happens, but on what God has decided happens. We are often wrong, often there are gaps in our understanding, and shortcomings in what we offer, and God gets in the gaps.

    I don't reverence the blessed sacrament because of what the priest thinks, but because of what I think. The sacrament is not some sort of projection of what the priest thinks, but the powerful reaching of God from all eternity touching me in time and space. I don't have the energy to worry not so much what the priest thinks, for I am consumed by the love of God who thinks on me.
     
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  3. PotterMcKinney

    PotterMcKinney Active Member Anglican

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    I can imagine that the person who said such a thing could've come up with the idea because of the Catholic emphasis on intent for a proper sacrament. Of course, Docetism was condemned long ago. The sacraments are not things we do, but things that God does for us (Genesis 22:8) to be witnesses to our faith (1 John 5:7-8, comma Johanneum excluded), assurance of our salvation, and means of grace (John 6:54-58, Mark 16:16). We cannot say a wicked celebrant hampers the promise of God, nor can we say it is on the celebrant's account that those promises are manifested.
     
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  4. Shane R

    Shane R Member

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    Consecration is entirely dependent on the work of the Holy Spirit. I have seen irreverent masses in many contexts, but one of the worst was at St. Helenas in San Antonio, TX. I went to mass that morning because I was overcome with joy at the announcement of the life of my first daughter. I wanted to pray in exhaltation and so I sought out a daily mass. But when I got there (St. Helenas is the largest parish in the diocese of San Antonio - supposedly 3,000+) I sat in the back because I did not wish to receive communion. I was near the hallway that led to the parish offices and I could hear the clergy joking about the saints of the day. They were quite irreverent and it soured my outlook on that parish.
     
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  5. Ide

    Ide Member

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    This is in three parts. Here is the 1st.
     
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