Irish Presbyterians

Discussion in 'Non-Anglican Discussion' started by Aidan, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    The General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland has decreed that anyone involved in a "gay marriage" will be excluded from communion and their children excluded from baptism
     
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  2. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I think it is harsh to exclude the children of single gender relationships from baptism.

    It is the same logic that calls children bastards because of their parents behavior.

    We are but children of grace.
     
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  3. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Being born out of wedlock always was considered bastardy, but not as an insult but merely a statement of fact... Only later i believe it morphed from a fact into an insult

    That being said, for us Anglicans harshness is not anathema

    That being said, I'm of two minds on this decision...
    I applaud them for excommunicating those who commit obstinate sin especially in today's age of gay mafia... but I also agree with Philip that it's not their children's fault! Maybe you should give their children some unfortunate name like bastardy, but don't exclude them from everlasting life...
     
  4. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit I can not speak from a position of absolute neutrality on this matter.

    At the time of my birth my parents were not married, or more precisely at the time of my birth my parents were married but not to each other.

    I do not believe that my parents marital state (at the time of my birth or any other time) defines me in any way. I do not believe that it makes me second class in any way. There are members of my extended family who I believe do think that it does, however I do not need to take that on board. The reality of this situation was not apparent to me for more than fifty years.

    Call me any 'unfortunate name' you like, but if it is not Philip - the name given me by my Godparents at my Baptism - I may not answer.
     
  5. Scottish Knight

    Scottish Knight Well-Known Member

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    Excluding their children from Baptism makes sense from a Presbyterian point of view where children are baptised upon the faith of their parents. To baptise their children would be to acknowledge, for Presbyterians, the parents as believers in good standing who have to promise to
    "provide a Christian home, and bring up this child in the worship and teaching of the Church, so that he/she may come to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour" (Irish Book of Common Worship). I realise you, as an Anglican, would disagree with their view and see it as unfortunate, but from the Presbyterian point of view this is the only consistent position they can take.
     
  6. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Member Anglican

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    This is difficult however it is very in line with the Reformed view of the sacrament of baptism, a view common to Presbyterians and some Anglicans. Unfortunately our modern age views baptism as merely a tribal badge of sorts and thus couples who are rejected will naturally view this as a personal attack and nothing more. Naturally the chattering classes of Ireland and the wider English speaker world will see them as nothing more than bigots. Good for the PCI sticking to their guns on this.
     
  7. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    Surely it's homosexuals' aberrant behaviour that is detrimental to these babies' spiritual welfare ?
     
  8. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    However I think we should give the children a chance.
     
  9. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, I just wonder how homosexual couples could promise to raise children according to Christs teaching when their lifestyle is so unChristian
     
  10. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I hope you are not suggesting that heterosexual couples are imune, for many of them have aspects in their lifestyle also remarkably unchristian, including the unrestrained pursuit of wealth, failure in charity and hospitality, and in some instances some ugly partner abuse.

    Homosexuality may be a sin, however there are others which we seem less threatened and nearly silent about.

    Please note I am not advocating homosexuality but I am advocating grace and especially grace to the children who do not need an inhospitable church for their salvation.
     
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  11. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    Unlike the holy sacrament of marriage, a homosexual relationship is predicated on sin
     
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