For lack of a better title I am calling this do Episcopalians bite?

Discussion in 'Questions about Anglicanism' started by Laura S., Jan 1, 2018.

  1. Laura S.

    Laura S. New Member

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    I hope I am putting this in the right place to get an answer to my question. First all political ideology aside I do not consider myself to be a conservative, moderate, or liberal. I follow my own beliefs and values, listen to those of others respectfully and whether I chose to agree with them or not accept their beliefs and values just as I hope they will respect mine. As I mentioned in my introductory post for this site I am a Southern Baptist who is spiritually burned out and planning on visiting my local Episcopal Church. Trinity Episcopal in Hannibal, MO. My brother found out and insists that coming from a Southern Baptist church after 24 years of being a member I will be in for a rude awakening as the Episcopal Church as a whole is one of the most liberal branches of Christianity and from his viewpoint Trinity is the most liberal church in Hannibal.
    I have met with the pastor of Trinity as I stated in my introductory post and found her to be a very sweet and welcoming lady who was excited for me to visit as soon as my obligations at my current church were completed.

    My question is this do you think someone coming from a faith background such as mine that I would have trouble fitting in at an Episcopalian church and are Episcopalians extremely liberal. I would say my current church for all intents and purposes is extremely conservative to moderate. I am still planning on visiting Trinity this Sunday, just to see what it is like, but I also don't want to be where I would be the wallflower and not fit in faith wise either.

    Also if anyone knows of any websites that describe what and Anglican and/or Episcopalian Church service is like please let me know. Something like the Anglican/Episcopalian Church for Dummies.com would help as I need to go that simplistic.
     
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  2. Tuxedo America

    Tuxedo America Member

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    I'm a former Episcopalian. I was one for a few years during my childhood. I only speak of my own experiences, and in that experience, I found the Episcopal Church to be extremely liberal. For starters, my pastor was in a same sex marriage. And, as you pointed out, the pastor at the church you're planning on attending is a woman. I can't imagine that Southern Baptists have too many of those (maybe I'm wrong- I don't know much about baptists, but it seems like something which would be unorthodox). Because the pastor is female, I would expect this particular church to be theologically liberal, which means it could very likely be socially liberal as well.

    So, I would heed your brother's "warning". I think it will be a bit of a shock, considering your background.
     
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  3. neminem

    neminem Member

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    I believe you will, like many, won't fully fit in anywhere, considering ...
    I am in the same boat, so to speak. I cannot be content with others, only with the LORD. And I have to accept that, or end up compromising myself just to fully fit in. But this would end up being a self-inflicted thorn in my side. God, not people, knows my heart, my beliefs, my truths, and He loves me.
     
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  4. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Having sweet and welcoming ladies is what many Episcopalian churches specialize that. Unfortunately it doesn't extend beyond that. What you've seen is all it will be, a place for people to be nice together. However Christianity is a harsh faith; as the proverb says, whoever wishes to marry the Spirit of this Age will find himself a Widower in the Next. Our cardinal principles are the acceptance of suffering, the necessity of redemption, of repentance, and a holy life which is both fulfilling and satisfying and yet arduous and pushing our abilities to the limits. None of those extremities of human experience will be found in most Episcopalian churches today (there are a few exceptions, but not in Hannibal, MO). Thus if your hope is just to find some nice people, then either the Episcopalian church or a Rotary club or the local Goodwill and Red Cross gatherings may be equally adequate (I'll forego the spiritual dangers for the sake of the discussion). If your intent is to try to live a life of holiness, in intimacy with God and godly people, then you will want to find an Anglican Church; as refugees from Episcopalianism, they will still know what it's like to be nice, but that won't be the final extent of their piety; it will be just the initial one.
     
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  5. Ide

    Ide Active Member

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    As far as whether you will like attending an Episcopal church based on your political or theological perspectives, I can't say as you haven't elaborated on those. As others have stated, it is very likely that it will be a Liberal church both socially, politically, and theologically. If that is what you are seeking, you will surely find it in the TEC. However, not all parishes are alike and there are some variations in style and theological views depending on the parish and diocese.

    As for an introduction to the liturgical style, this video may be of help:

    http://www.christchurchkc.org/worship/

    It explains the liturgical practices of the Anglican church. You may encounter a more contemporary style music or traditional setting, but most Anglican churches will follow this format.

    May God be with you in your search.
     
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  6. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Laura,

    I spent about 20 minutes looking over the parish and then the diocese website. My advice. Stay away.

    The Bishop's message has just enough right sounding theology to distract you from the social activism that has replaced the Gospel in far to many
    Episcopal Churches and other liberal churches.

    You say you march to your own drummer. Don't try that in this parish. You will have to toe the liberal theological, political and social line. You can not be any other.

    Are they nice. Of course. They are dying and desperate for any new members. My experiences with Episcopalians, most or the majority, is that if you are orthodox in Christianity and hold to a Biblical world view. As we use to say in the Marines, Standby. Meaning you will be on the receiving end of a whole lot of grief.

    Now if you do not hold to a Biblical world view and are ok with openly promoting sin, then join or attend this parish. Remember, the Episcopal Church champions sexual sin. Participate in "gay pride" and Episcopal ministers have said abortion is a sacrament and blessed abortion mills for Planned Parent Hood. TEC is creating or has created a liturgy for so called gay marriage. Episcopal Bishops have filed friend of the courts briefs supporting gay activist forcing Christians to set aside their beliefs. These things are easily provable by just googling .

    Is every Episcopal parish like this? No. Orthodox or Christian parishes still exist in TEC. This parish is not one.

    I echo, May God be with you in your search.

    Blessings,

    Fr. Mark
     
  7. DouayJamesGeneva

    DouayJamesGeneva Active Member

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    Occasionally, I attend an Assemblies of God church that my mom goes to. However, I do not socialize in the church because I am sensitize to interactions involving religion, and I simply enjoy the worship and communion (whenever it is served). The pastor there teaches a lot of things that are orthodox and seems to hold to some form of sacramental theology regarding the Eucharist which I did not fully understand until recently. This would be interesting to those who doubt that communion is taught in the light of that tradition in non-Catholic churches.

    Still, I know what it's like to encounter people who are only tolerant or loving in a temperamental, carnal sense. Someone can be smiling, talking cute, and giggling, only to suddenly become hostile at the slight mention of biblical orthodoxy. I have a psychiatrist who proscribes me medicines for a few psychological problems, but is a rotten Darwinist who, despite being of Filipino descent, denies racial equality and told me that blacks were inferior and responsible for their own woes because of their genetics. He says his own people are inferior but supposedly he's the cream of the crop. He, including past psychiatrists I've been to, are among the most demonic people in any health profession you can find. The one I see has started off conversations laughing and then when I told him that I held to certain controversial opinions (usually biblical ones) he would snap and instantly become threatening and aggressive, saying Christianity doesn't do anything for people and that I should stop believing in it when it is appropriate. My experience with people in this profession is that they don't know where to draw the line in offering a diagnosis, suggesting some advice and accepting certain things they can't really change or understand about people's deeply held convictions. I also questioned their diagnosis, and while I do agree that these things may have a natural cause for which there can be an appropriate treatment, I avoid talking to them about personal (i.e.; spiritual) things, let them make their prescription, and then be off on my own. Unfortunately, the profession is dominated by antichrist humanistic propaganda and brainwashing, and I have not yet been able to find a God-fearing specialist who I would prefer to switch to, as oppose to a God-hating new age quack, which most of them are. Medical doctors do the same, often desiring to be the false angels of light that scripture warns us of, but to a much lesser extent as the spiritually empty psychology field.

    Lastly, this video should give you a tip-of-the-iceberg window into the prevalence of mindfulness and reiki practices within the church. This female minister of TEC chants mantras on the anglican version of the rosary:
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  8. peter

    peter Active Member

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    It is worth bearing in mind that the worldwide Anglican Communion has become so dissatisfied with the lack of orthodoxy in the TEC that it has been suspended from the Communion for three years.
     
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  9. Ide

    Ide Active Member

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    Yes, I think this is important to note to anyone who is exploring TEC. I don't think TEC cares much about this rebuke, or at least, have made little fuss over it.

    However, I think it would help if the OP made her theological views clearer. Even though liberal theology doesn't jive well for many of us, she may be looking for a more theologically liberal church after coming out of the Baptist church.

    I think that OP could find a home in Anglicanism (and many others might too, if they gave it a good chance) and perhaps TEC can serve as a suitable introduction to liturgy and communion. We just need to be honest, as Fr. Mark is, about what to expect when visiting.

    Personally, I found my way into Christianity via TEC and the UCC, and think there is room for orthodox "liberalism". Even though I disagree with them on many points, the strength of some liberal churches/ denominations is that they are more open to welcome strangers who are "unchurched" as opposed to a more conservative denomination who may demand upfront allegiance to dogma or fundamental Christian beliefs. I never would have come to Christianity if the only option was a Southern Baptist or Pentecostal church because they are excellent at driving seekers away. It's a shame because TEC could attract many modern seekers if they offered a more robust, traditional approach to the faith and still kept things a bit more open and relaxed for those inquiring on the faith.
     
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  10. Ide

    Ide Active Member

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    So, technically she is priest, not a minister. I watched the video and did not hear any "mantras" chanted nor any discussion of reiki or mindfulness. In fact, she gives a rather straightforward presentation of the Anglican rosary and encourages people to use scripture, Psalms, songs etc.. with the beads. That's a standard approach for using the beads.
     
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  11. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    Mark, when you were in the corps, were you a grunt or a chaplain ? And, do chaplains get weapons training?
     
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  12. DouayJamesGeneva

    DouayJamesGeneva Active Member

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    Oops, wrong video then. I hadn't watched it in a while, and must've been thinking of another similar video by someone else.

    As far as Southern Baptists driving people away, I'm not sure I'd say that, as they're still one of the most conservative denominations. Pentecostals, maybe, but I'm not sure about Baptist, but I have more sympathies for them among the Protestant denominations that are so conservative for refusing to adhere to many cultural politically correct shifts. Baptists get a bad rap, but it's mostly the IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptists) who are causing most of the trouble.

    While I agree that having a good statement of doctrine is important, I also think that most of the more 'Catholic' denominations are more esoteric and tend to have a steep curve of understanding their theology and beliefs than the more commoner churches that are being criticized here. Since the bible asks for the believer's humble fidelity to scripture, and the fact that the New Testament was written in everyday people's Koine Greek rather than the more difficult literary dialects of the day, I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing, preferring not to cater to the elite only, though I understand that we all must grow spiritually over time. Still, there are many spiritually mature ministers in both the Baptist and Non-Denom churches.
     
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  13. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    Friend, as a nurse, it worries me that you feel your mental health professionals are "demonic" "anti-Christ" and "humanistic". In the name of God, I hope you soon are able to trust someone.
     
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  14. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I was a grunt. 0302. I commanded a Marine Rifle Company. I was a Captain when my active service ended.

    Chaplains do not get any weapons training and do not carry weapons. They are assigned a guardian angel. A sailor or Marine who guards the Chaplain and inflicts serious bodily harm upon anyone attempting to harm the Chaplain.

    My Chaplain was a Roman Catholic Priest who had been a Marine Sniper in Vietnam. He had the most confirmed kills in the Battalion. He use to use that to get us young wayward Marines to behave and attend religious services. He line was " you really going to tell the man with the most confirmed kills, no? Really? Think about it?" I remember one mission in Central American. We were heading out for combat patrols. Live fire patrols. Leave it at that. He stood at the entrance to the patrol base blessing everyone as we walked past. I still hear him, "May our Lord God preserve you, Jesus who redeemed you and the Holy Spirit guide and protect you." He use to go on missions with us. We were his parish and he went where his sheep were. Use to anger the Battalion Commander! The Padre was protected by God. He should have been killed so many times. He was my inspiration to becoming a priest.

    Blessings

    Fr. Mark
     
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  15. neminem

    neminem Member

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    My new Anglican Reverend served in two tours in Vietnam as a foot soldier. Then became an a Reverend, yet still in the army. Then he was always requested to go as front line chaplain. He went all over the place. Wherever Australian soldiers were, he was there, most with the special services (behind the lines stuff). He retired only five years ago. I asked him once about his ethics of carrying a weapon and using it. He said: "Oh no! I don't carry any weapons. My job is the go wherever the fighting soldiers go and give them the last rights if need be. Also to administer religious services, spiritual counselling, and prayer."
     
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  16. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Laura,

    I understand your concerns. I have attended thoroughly orthodox and even conservative TEC parishes and I've been to extreme liberal ones. You'll need to follow your conscience and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

    Here is a link to this past Sunday's Holy Eucharist at Trinity Episcopal Church on Wall Street in NYC, so it's pretty liberal. I think if you like this (or at least can tolerate it) then you should be able to hangout in almost any TEC parish. It will also give you a good idea of what worship is like in TEC.

    https://www.trinitywallstreet.org/video/sunday-1115am-holy-eucharist-57
     
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  17. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    Very laudable. But by going on patrol he may have proven a liability as the others might be concerned for his safety. What do you think?
     
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  18. Anglican04

    Anglican04 Active Member Anglican

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    It's honestly sick and people need to wake up. My parish (which I love, don't get me wrong) claims to offer "Classic worship for the contemporary soul" while having a deaconess, supporting gays, abortion+contraception, and stupid heresies.

    Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
    nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.

    For the Lord watches over the way of the righteous,
    but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.

    Psalm 1:5-6
     
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  19. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    This is an amazing thread
    Everyone is getting a Like
     
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  20. Anglican04

    Anglican04 Active Member Anglican

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    My dad gets freaked out when people are too nice. He almost lost his marbles over a female minister simply cracking a joke at our first visit to an Episcopalian Parish. I don't blame him though, he got scarred from seeing JWs refer to each other as "brother/sister". Or it would be "Brother Johnny" if it wasn't just "brother".
     

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