Your thoughts on Augustus Toplady?

Discussion in 'Theology and Doctrine' started by Old Christendom, Apr 6, 2013.

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  1. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    See my responses in red above. Let's see if you have the integrity to retract your misrepresentations and falsehoods and offer me an apology.
     
  2. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    And you think Calvinism doesn't lead to extremes? The Hyper-Calvinists are a prime example of that. What about the Primitive Baptists? And you are another example of it.
     
  3. Charlie J. Ray

    Charlie J. Ray Active Member

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    I'm not getting the part where I have "allegedly" attacked you personally. I simply laid out the way I see things developing here. I've already had one person "claim" to be tolerant but who so disagrees with all Calvinism that he put me and several other Calvinists on ignore.
     
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  4. Charlie J. Ray

    Charlie J. Ray Active Member

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    The term "hyper-calvinist" is another swear word for anyone who isn't a Van Tilian dialectical theologian who compromises with Barthian neo-orthodoxy.

    Secondly, I am not and never have been a member of any Primitive Baptist church. My grandfather was Primitive Baptist. That does not make me one. For one thing, Primitive Baptists have no formal seminary or even college training. I have both a BA and an MDiv in theology. That hardly makes me an anti-intellectual.

    Thirdly, my apologetics is Scripturalist. If you're going to label everyone who rejects the semi-Arminian doctrine of common grace and the "free offer" as "hyper-calvinist", be my guest:) It does not amount to much more than saying that you disagree with Calvinism. Van Til and the neo-Calvinists departed from classical Calvinism. Read Calvin's Calvinism sometime.
     
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  5. Charlie J. Ray

    Charlie J. Ray Active Member

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    I guess that makes me Anglican twice over. I was ordained as a deacon in the Reformed Episcopal Church and I was confirmed as a member of Christ Church Longwood, which is part of the Central Florida Diocese of the Episcopal Church. Since the REC is now part of the ACNA, I take it that you recognize them as part of the Anglican Communion? At least the Sydney Diocese does....
     
  6. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    Personally, while I don't agree them, I have a great respect for the Primitive Baptists. They seem to me to be the logical end result of the Calvinism path. They're so Calvinist, they think of Calvin is too liberal. Here's a website on PBs that I enjoy: http://www.primitivebaptist.org/
     
  7. Charlie J. Ray

    Charlie J. Ray Active Member

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    Not all Primitive Baptists are the same, though. I've visited a few of their churches in Florida out of curiosity. Presbyterians are more consistent with Scripture and with Calvin, imo. The doctrinal statements of PBs is very limited and the rest of their teaching is their understanding of Scripture and their own oral traditions.

    I respect them but I wouldn't fit at all with them.

    So Absalom and all the men of Israel said, "The advice of Hushai the Archite is better than the advice of Ahithophel." For the LORD had purposed to defeat the good advice of Ahithophel, to the intent that the LORD might bring disaster on Absalom. (2 Samuel 17:14 NKJ)
     
  8. Scottish Monk

    Scottish Monk Well-Known Member

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    Baptist Bible Hour with Lasserre Bradley, Jr., Primitive Baptist Church, Cincinnati, OH.

    Sermon: A Thankful Heart.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    I have read all of Calvin that I need or want.

    Despite your education, I wonder about your comprehension. I did not say you were a Primitive Baptist.
     
  10. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    While I do not agree with PB doctrine, I agree with you that they are the most logical and consistent of all the Calvinists. Further, on the fundie Baptist forum that I was a member of, I made a good friend there who was PB. In fact, the PBs there I found to be more Christlike than many on that forum, Calvinist or otherwise.
     
  11. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't me, though, and I have been clear since I came here that I believe it is a good thing that the Anglican Communion is able to contain all the different beliefs that it does. I have been the target of at least a couple of people here saying I don't belong in the Anglican Communion and apparently wishing I would leave. I do not hold that attitude toward anyone here, not even toward those who hold it regarding me, as I pointed out to one person here the other day, and you probably know who I'm talking about. Even those who hold beliefs diametrically opposite to mine, I do not wish to see them excluded.

    I grew up Southern Baptist, have been a member of the UMC and TEC, and I have worshiped in churches of many different denominations. My views are diverse, and I knew a long time ago I needed a denomination that was as diverse as possible. If you read my posts, you can see that. I can't be pigeonholed. As a result, I've taken fire from all across the theological spectrum because I don't fit readily in any "party". I have that in common with F.D. Maurice, my favorite Anglican theologian.

    As an example of my diversity, I believe in lay presidency, and prayers for the dead. That confuses both Anglo-Catholics and Evangelicals. :)

    I'd like to get along with you, if possible. It's up to you. Just know that I'll strongly disagree with you on many things, and agree with you on some. That's not a problem for me, if it's not for you.
     
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  12. Charlie J. Ray

    Charlie J. Ray Active Member

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    Inconsistency, incongruity, and contradictory positions is hardly something to boast about. A systematic theology of the propositions of Scripture should be logically coherent and avoid contradictions. The law of contradiction would render inconsistency as irrationalism. I fail to see how irrationalism is the answer to anything. That's what has led to the problems over pan sexuality in the Anglican Communion, imo. If there is no doctrinal standard by which anyone else's theology can be examined then there is no truth.

    I believe that Scripture is that standard.

    I get along with many different kinds of people, including those who are outside the church. Inside the church, like outside, there are unbelievers and various other kinds of people. The visible church is not pure or perfect. That's also why I believe that the visible churches should always be reforming themselves according to Scripture. Ecclesia semper reformanda.

    Charlie
     
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  13. Charlie J. Ray

    Charlie J. Ray Active Member

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    No, but you did imply that there was little difference between a Primitive Baptist and myself. You might be interested to note that the term "Calvinist" or "Reformed" is diverse. The term isn't concrete or reified. In fact, the controversy between Cornelius Van Til/neo-Calvinism and Gordon H. Clark/classical Calvinism rages on.

    I fall into the category of Scripturalism. I believe the Bible is univocally the very the Word of God, not just an analogy of truth.
     
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  14. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member Typist Anglican

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    This thread has run its course.
     
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