yikes, "Roman Catholic Bishops Galore Sign on to Pro-LGBT Statement!"

Discussion in 'Anglican and Christian News' started by anglican74, May 26, 2021.

  1. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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  2. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Those dingbats think that God created man with sinful proclivities like homosexual lust. They betray their own faith, which teaches that sin and temptations came into the world because of Adam and Eve's original sin.

    The pro-LGBT statement errs in claiming that God created humans with homosexual attractions. God created Adam and Eve as sinless people with no such attractions. Homosexual lust, like all sins, entered humanity because of their original sin and their transport from Eden into the fallen world in which we now live. This world and our adversaries, Satan and the fallen angels, present humans with countless temptations and opportunities to sin. The pro-LGBT statement essentially blames God for the fallen nature of man, and this is a falsehood.

    What next? Will these bishops say that God created humans with greed, jealousy and hatred? Did God create some to be bank robbers and others to be rapists? :loopy:
     
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  3. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Heavenly father, please save us from evil pastors....
     
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  4. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    It was probably hard for Adam and Eve to be gay if there was no other members of their own sex around to be attracted to.

    I did learnt one thing from anglican 74's picture, if you are a retired RC archbishop your title is bishop not archbishop.
     
  5. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I am pro-Anglican, not anti-Catholic. The article that leads this thread is from Protestia.com and as such is a secondary source. Their website says "Our goal at Protestia is to continue the Reformation in all facets of life, living the slogan, “Semper Reformanda” (always reforming). And likewise, we most certainly are Protestants who are still protesting"

    Another source for this information can be found here: https://tylerclementi.org/a-group-o...statement-condemning-bullying-of-lgbtq-youth/ and this certainly present a different take on the issue.

    Here is the religion New Service article of January 25 2021 which seems to be the source document, or at least as close as most of us are going to get.
    https://religionnews.com/2021/01/25/a-group-of-catholic-bishops-issue-statement-condemning-the-bullying-of-lgbtq-youth/

    With much respect it does seem that to describe the statement as Pro-LGBT, may indeed be a gloss, as the statement is more about anti-bullying.

    “All people of goodwill should help, support, and defend LGBT youth; who attempt suicide at much higher rates than their straight counterparts; who are often homeless because of families who reject them; who are rejected, bullied and harassed; and who are the target of violent acts at alarming rates,” ​

    Perhaps we can do better.
     
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  6. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Well, okay. It's very true that parents should not throw their youths out of the house for 'coming out,' but tossing minors out of the house tends to be illegal in the US anyway. Once they reach 18, though, they are considered adults. I have to wonder a bit whether the youths who claim to have been pushed out of the house are telling the truth about the reasons; after all, what 17-year-old young man would admit, "Mom threw me out because I stole money out of her purse," or "because my three boyfriends were in my bedroom every night and we were snorting cocaine," or "because I threatened to slit her throat when she fell asleep"?? We simply don't have accurate statistics.

    As for being subject of "violent acts" or bullying, we have laws against those as well. "All people of goodwill should help, support and defend" all youths from such depradations.
     
  7. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    as someone once said, “You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you”

    It would be nice and good to hold hands with our R.C. friends but the truth of the matter is, amidst all the social crises, they present themselves as the solution, and us as the problem... And if you go on youtube, nothing is more common than videos of R.C. adherents mocking anglican history, anglican heroes, anglican positions

    So if you are wondering, does a state of antagonism exist between you botolph, and the RCs around you, perhaps your immediate RC friends are not your enemies, but you better believe that many RCs in your circle backbite and malign and mock your beliefs, while puffing up their church as the answer to all problems

    And yet their bishops sign pro-LGBT and pro-trans statements; they have a pope who's said heretical things, while Anglicans do not have "a pope who's said heretical things"... Anglicanism world wide is not in danger from a heretical pope to subvert our doctrine in one fell-swoop, around the world, so we are the bulwark of orthodoxy, and Rome is tottering and falling
     
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  8. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    There is more that unites us than tears us apart.
     
  9. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    https://virtueonline.org/allan-s-haley-anglican-canon-lawyer-goes-rome

    Just this week, a famous and beloved Anglican canon lawyer has converted to Romanism botolph.... And that's despite this gaggle of RC bishops spouting in favor of LGBT agenda

    How is it possible that he felt he had more safety in Romanism despite evidence to the contrary? It is because not everyone is as nice and polite as you... the aggressive Romanist apologists who surrounded Halley didn't seem to believe in the "unity platitudes;" but please continue to believe them, so that when they present aggressive cases for the roman church, you will not have an equally robust response, and more of our good people will be brainwashed to make the mistake of their lives and go into the corrupt arms of a very dangerous, and very sketchy church
     
  10. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that we lose people to all manner of other traditions in Christ is sad. I have confronted aggressive Roman Catholics, (mainly ex Anglicans) and aggressive Independent Catholics (mainly ex Anglicans), . . . and when I remind them we believe in one God, and focus on what unites us we get on better. It is of course more difficult if some of what we agree about is deplorable leadership in our respective communions.

    It is of course my hope that some of those who make it to the kingdom will be nice and polite, it just wouldn't do if the place was full of arrogant twats.

    Of course to point I was making was that the statement by the Latin Bishops was not so much pro-LGBTQI (& whatever else goes on the list) so much as being an anti bullying statement. It was dated Jan 25, so it is a bit late to be still banging on about it anyway.

    Anyway, thank you for saying I am nice and polite. I kind of find that remarkable given what else is going on in my life. I guess I have lost it all yet.
     
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  11. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Truly the kingdom will be quite full of twats, made arrogant no longer. :laugh:

    "Blessed are the peacemakers," one of which you always strive to be. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
  12. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    I am suspicious of any 'agressive' anythings, be they 'Anglican', 'RC', 'Mormon', 'Southern Baptist', 'White Supremacist', or 'Islamist'. Matt.7:15-21.

    I am more concerned at 'Bishops', mostly populism elected or self appointed, in 'non-communion' Anglicanism, who might be inclined to sign " anti-LGBT and anti-trans statements; thus encouraging 'agressive' extremists on the fringes of Christianity, to violently target and attack their 'scapegoated' victims, supposedly in the name of Christ.

    It is not so much a defense of true doctrine which directs these physical 'attacks', it is bigotry and the demonic influence of threat, abuse of power and coertion. The exact antithesis to The Holy Spirit, the fruit of which are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things. There is a law against beating up 'Gays' and 'Trannies'.
    .
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
  13. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    All things bright and beautiful all creatures great and small
    All things wise and wonderful the Lord God made them all.


    The Rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate,
    God made them high or lowly and ordered their estate.

    All things bright and beautiful all creatures great and small
    All things wise and wonderful the Lord God made them all.


    People actually used to sing and believe such tripe, would you believe, and no doubt some still do.
    .
     
  14. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but God doesn't 'make them "greedy or envious" and order their estate.'
     
  15. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    God does not 'order' our demenour but there were some Anglicans that believed that God 'ordered' Knights of the Realm and paupers, and they should 'know their place'. Thank God our American cousins had more sensibly emancipated theological and political ideas, (much to the regret of the English nobility). :laugh: I guess that old idea of 'inherited worth' or 'divinely deserved wealth', is still strong in the USA among the really wealthy religious. Some have even tried to pass it off as a 'Gospel'.
    .
     
  16. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Really I have no idea where this view (that such an idea is strong in the USA) would come from, as I have not seen it here. People here have (until recently at least) been taught that any of us can 'pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps' and make something of himself. Some wealthy folks can be snooty, I suppose, but this is true everywhere in the world, and religion has nothing to do with it.

    It is only in the recently popular, deceitful, neomarxist Critical Race Theory that people (particularly the younger folks) are being falsely taught that Caucasians bask in their 'white privilege' while keeping their boots firmly on the necks of all darker-skinned folks. Whereas old Marxism sought to divide a populace into privileged bourgeoisie elites and downtrodden proletariat workers, the existence in the USA of a broad middle class made this sort of division untenable; therefore neo-Marxism seeks to divide primarily by skin color (but also as by any other grounds of contention that can be exacerbated, including political, religious, and sexual differences).
     
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  17. ZachT

    ZachT Well-Known Member

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    I think he's a having a jab at prosperity theology.

    I'd also say a prosperity theology (that is the belief that God rewards the faithful with wealth, so the poor must be sinful, and the wealthy must be virtuous) can only really grow in a society where people believe everyone and anyone can just 'pull themselves up by the bootstraps'.

    If you acknowledge that society binds some people in a cycle of poverty that is near impossible to escape no matter what they do or how hard they work then it's harder to call poor people sinners. If, however, poverty is a choice then you have a cultural framework where the poor are choosing to be poor, and therefore we can say they are sinners.

    That's not to say the American condition is always going to lead to the revolting idolatry of money, just that an egalitarian society is a necessary pre-condition to prosperity theology. I'm an Australian, we also have a very egalitarian culture where we say, and genuinely believe, that anyone can do anything and achieve anything if they work hard enough. I wouldn't trade it in for an older classist culture, that would be to cut off my nose to spite my face. But it does allow certain toxic breeds of materialism to creep into the culture along with it if we're not careful.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
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  18. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    Money Matters, however Money does not matter most.
     
  19. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    It is the love of money, (and the success signalling that it enables), that is the root of all evil, not money itself. 1 Tim.6:10. And yes, it was the Prosperity gospel, (a peculiarly American phenomenon), that I was aiming my pilum at. A 'gospel' that even Jesus Christ himself seems not to have got enough points to qualify for a top prize in. Luke 9:57-58.
     
  20. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Here is my favourite circular argument from the Old Testament stating what appears to be a fundamental contradiction, were it not for human disobedience and greed.

    But there will be no poor among you; for the LORD will bless you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance to possess— if only you will strictly obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all this commandment that I command you today. For the LORD your God will bless you, as he promised you, and you shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow, and you shall rule over many nations, but they shall not rule over you.
    “If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the LORD against you, and you be guilty of sin. You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Deut. 15:4-11.

    there will be no poor among you; for the LORD will bless you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.
    But "there will never cease to be poor in the land."

    And why?

    Because of Human Greed, Disobedience to God, guilt and sin.

    The prosperity gospel usually fails to mention the lack of generosity of the rich, whose eyes "look grudgingly on the poor, and give them nothing", by voting for any party which pledges to most reduce taxes on the wealthy by abdicating its responsibility to relieve the burdens consequently placed upon the poor, for the running of a fair and Godly society, in the land God has given them to possess, being a major cause of the poverty of the poor.
    .