When The Church Goes Too Far

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by Sean611, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. Andrea

    Andrea Member

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    Oh and thanx for the welcome
     
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  2. mark1

    mark1 Active Member

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    I would emphasize the extreme that you mentioned, rejecting the Creeds of the Church.

    My backup plans are a return to the Roman Catholic Church or entering the United Methodist Church.

     
  3. Sean611

    Sean611 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Andrea and mark1 for your contributions to this thread. I'm inclined to agree with both of you, it seems that rejecting the Creeds would be the tipping point or abandoning the Sacraments (communion w/o baptism) is a huge issue for many of us.

    I've pretty much rejected the idea of joining a Lutheran or Presbyterian Church. I guess it could be a good temporary community to worship at and hear the Word, however, I would have to abstain from their Eucharist, as I don't believe it to be valid.

    For many, the Roman Catholic Church would be a somewhat easy transition. There is actually an Anglican Ordinariate RCC parish about 80 miles from me, i'd really like to visit it and see how "Anglican" it really is. However, Rome is not a good option for me as my wife was previously married. The idea of taking one to two years for a a bunch of 60 year old unmarried men to decide whether or not the marriage was valid seems ridiculous and I would have a hard time putting my wife through such a charade. The idea of papal infallibility and some of the Marian theology is even tougher to swallow. If I ever felt called to to head in that direction, I would have to "change my tune" and "un-harden my heart." :D

    There are some great continuing Anglican and Orthodox parishes in my area, but they are all about 80-90 miles away. It's like baptist paradise in my area, if you are a baptist, you'll have about 10 choices.

    I pray that things work themselves out here in TEC and in the Communion...some of us don't have very many options.
     
  4. Andrea

    Andrea Member

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    Yeah, I'm with you Lutheran or Methodist Churches I couldn't join for sacramental purposes. There are actually EO churches close enough by as well as a pncc. Plus there is a ton of Roman Catholic Churches. There's even a Byzantine Catholic Church, so I would have options if I ever had to leave.
     
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  5. nkygreg

    nkygreg Member

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    I am looking back on this thread. Interesting thoughts. There is a growing home church, small group movement. Would some consider a small group of likeminded persons? Maybe based on Franciscan or Benedictine models? There are Franciscan and Benedictine models within the Anglican Tradition.
     
  6. UK Anglican

    UK Anglican Member

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    Have you thought about staying Episcopalian doing some worshipping at home, but just attending another church which holds to your values without joining it?
    or
    Staying where you are but starting an off shoot to the church for the more traditionally minded members of the congregagtion, there is bound to be more people who feel like you and there could even be some of the clergy who feel the same?
     
  7. padreegan

    padreegan Member

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    I think we are only a generation away from 'weathering the storm'. In 20 years, the only folks left in TEC will be the faithful. Liberals don't grow or plant Churches all too well!
     
  8. Jeff F

    Jeff F Well-Known Member

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    I wish I had your optimism Fr., but the numbers are troubling at best. The ECUSA is losing around 50,000 members annually, at least for the past several years, and at that rate in 20 years it will be abandoned buildings or more ecumenical unions to stay afloat financially.

    Jeff
     
  9. UK Anglican

    UK Anglican Member

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    I think all churches are suffering not just Anglican ones. There needs to be a resurgence in devoted christianity to counteract how and what modern society is teaching. Frankly although I am optomistic I think that this will be a while yet.
     
  10. Jeff F

    Jeff F Well-Known Member

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    [quote="UK Anglican, post: 13343, member: 1243"]I think all churches are suffering not just Anglican ones. There needs to be a resurgence in devoted christianity to counteract how and what modern society is teaching. Frankly although I am optomistic I think that this will be a while yet.[/quote]

    I agree completely, but unfortunately the Episcopal church is going one step farther and expelling Bishops, Priests, and Deacons, not to mention an entire diocese that was just shoved out the door.:(

    Jeff
     
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  11. UK Anglican

    UK Anglican Member

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    I agree completely, but unfortunately the Episcopal church is going one step farther and expelling Bishops, Priests, and Deacons, not to mention an entire diocese that was just shoved out the door.:(

    Jeff[/quote]

    :o
     
  12. padreegan

    padreegan Member

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    I am optimistic...but cautiously so. I say that because things will continue to decline. I pray that after the dust settles, those of us who still believe in and preach Christ Crucified will be able to rebuild the Church. But of course, it is all God's will and his plan in his way and time.
     
  13. Jeff F

    Jeff F Well-Known Member

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    Fr., the events of South Carolina should be a clarifying wake up call to you. Those of you left preaching Christ crucified or any other historical truth are in the cross hairs of your Presiding Bishop, who holds your pension and church property in her tightly clenched claws.

    Jeff
     
  14. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I wish there was a continuing parish close enough to visit, but the only one I know of is St. Mary the Virgin (APCK) in La Mesa. I don't drive, so that is very difficult for me to visit. Also, the ACNA parishes are about the same distance as well. I visited several TEC parishes in the '80's, but have no interest in visiting again. Actually, the Episcopal parish closest to me was St. Elizabeth's, and I went there a couple of times back in the '80's. Now it is St. Anthony the Great Antiochian Orthodox parish, since TEC sold the property a couple of years ago. I was there for the Christmas Eve service, and they did a nice job remodeling the building.
     
  15. padreegan

    padreegan Member

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    I must confess I grow every so weary of the whole 'pension and building' argument. I have only been a priest in TEC for 3.5 years. I have nothing truly invested in my 'pension'. I could have gone ACNA, but at this time, in my opinion, ACNA has a lot of their own battles to fight within their own Church. Prayer Book issues, women's ordination issues, etc. I am in an orthodox diocese, and yes we are most likely not the PB's favorite diocese, we are remaining faithful to the Gospel. For all of those bishops who left TEC, I do know that most of them retired, which means they are collecting their TEC pensions, then went to ACNA. As for buildings, I do not have an attachment to a building. I could move to a store front and still preach Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I was not called by God to the priesthood to worry about earthly things but to prepare the faithful for heavenly things.
     
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  16. Perceval

    Perceval New Member

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    I believe myself to be a member of my parish first, and of the Episcopal church and the Anglican communion second. I realize that may strike the orthodox as inappropriate, but I came to the faith through that parish and no other, and part of my desire when I attended my first service was to establish spiritual community with those in my local community. Thus, I will probably remain loyal to it. I tend toward the liberal, personally, though I prefer the Church be conservative purely for its stability. Too much in the world is changing too quickly: I see in Tradition a saving grace. Change is inevitable, but there's no need to embrace it in a running hug. It will come for us in its -- and God's -- own time.

    An example of tension: I was told by the rector when I first began attending that the Communion table was God's table, and not the church's, and thus if I felt called, no one would refuse me in participating. As I came out of another Christian tradition (Oneness Pentecostals who baptized "In Jesus Name" and not in titles), I waited several months until I could be baptized before taking Communion. I appreciate their sentiment, but I wanted to preserve propriety...
     
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  17. Jeff F

    Jeff F Well-Known Member

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    Noble values indeed, but how do you see your Diocese being more insulated from the PB than South Carolina? You may well believe you can continue without building or pension, but what about a salary and/or ordination? At some point your faith must realize that the ship is not only on fire, but on it's way down to the abyss. May God guide and strengthen you!

    Jeff
     
  18. The Hackney Hub

    The Hackney Hub Well-Known Member

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    I tend to agree with J.I. Packer:

    http://www.oldjamestownchurch.com/b...-on-the-nature-and-future-of-anglicanism.html
     
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