What would bring you over?

Discussion in 'Non-Anglican Discussion' started by Lowly Layman, Feb 16, 2014.

  1. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,189
    Likes Received:
    1,939
    What is the biggest stumbling block in Anglicanism that, if removed or at least re-interpreted, would entice you to join your local Anglican church body?
     
  2. Ogygopsis

    Ogygopsis Active Member

    Posts:
    123
    Likes Received:
    56
    The question is an odd one, unless you mean leaving another religious denomination. I also think the question is backwards. I would suggest a better question might be what are the stumbling blocks for the Roman church, which are its endemic sexism and failure to allow female leadership, attitudes toward sexuality and family, its authoritarianism; and the stumbling blocks for most mainstream protestant denominations are lack of liturgy, and excesses on the opposite end re lack of clarity of thought; the stumbling blocks for most evangelical protestant denominations are self centredness, greed/avarice, and exclusivity.
     
    seagull likes this.
  3. SirPalomides

    SirPalomides Active Member

    Posts:
    103
    Likes Received:
    41
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Orthodox Christian
    Stumbling blocks for me have been mainly two: 1. the 39 articles and the question of their compatibility with Anglo-Catholicism (having read a great deal more into this question, I am less worried about this; 2. The apparent ability of an Anglican bishop (Spong, of Newark, now retired) to openly deny basic Christian tenets without being deposed or having any disciplinary action taken against him.
     
    RBrown, Alkayus and seagull like this.
  4. SirPalomides

    SirPalomides Active Member

    Posts:
    103
    Likes Received:
    41
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Orthodox Christian
    I am in favor of women's ordination; however, the assertion that those who are not in favor of it are invariably coming from a sexist/ misogynist perspective is false, unfair, and destructive to any meaningful dialogue on the question.
     
  5. Ogygopsis

    Ogygopsis Active Member

    Posts:
    123
    Likes Received:
    56
    I haven't stated "misogyny" but sexism and I would differentiate them. Sexism is about failure to consider. Misogyny is active working against and hatred.

    I do not think that Anglican ordination of women is a stumbling block, rather, the fault lies with the RCs. They have also shown that their house is in disorder surrounding sexual issues more generally. Are the RC issues with women connected with their sexual abuse scandals? Some of us see one.
     
  6. nkygreg

    nkygreg Member

    Posts:
    94
    Likes Received:
    91
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Franciscan Order
    Spong speaks only for Spong. I don't see a high percentage of Anglicans/Episcopalians that totally agree with him. As far as I was concerned, the Episcopal Church had a reputation for being "rich and elitists". The Parish I joined is far from that. We have a soup kitchen and food pantry (of which I volunteer). I am proud to say I am a Episcopalian!
     
    Lowly Layman likes this.
  7. SirPalomides

    SirPalomides Active Member

    Posts:
    103
    Likes Received:
    41
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Orthodox Christian
    This might be an acceptable defense if Spong were not a bishop. A bishop speaks for the church. He is given a special authority to teach and interpret the Gospel, as is made plain in the Book of Common Prayer and the Christian tradition in general. If a bishop openly preaches blasphemies and heresies it behooves Christians to depose him. I can assure you that, in the Orthodox church, if any bishop were to openly deny the resurrection or the divinity of Christ, he would be deposed quite speedily. The fact that this did not happen with Spong and others of his ilk shows a serious lack of discipline in the Episcopal Church.
     
    Alkayus likes this.
  8. Hughsie

    Hughsie New Member

    Posts:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Country:
    England
    Religion:
    Non-Religious
    The thing that would predominantly have to change for me to be a Christian would be the story of Jesus (or at least my understanding of it). It simply doesn't make sense to me. There are other things but that is the first one that springs to mind.

    The thing about Anglicanism that would have to change is the, what I perceive to be, homophobia it contains. While I recognise that the Anglican community is better in this respect than most other denominations (like the RCC), I still think it has a long way to go. Again, there are other things but this is the first one that springs to mind.
     
  9. Kammi

    Kammi Member

    Posts:
    20
    Likes Received:
    25
    Country:
    Canada
    Religion:
    Anglican
    I am an Anglican and belong to my local Anglican Church body but a comment that I regularly hear is "all these people show up at Christmas, Easter and for baptisms and then never come back during the year". No...if they are not regular church goers they probably won't come back. The service was 1 3/4 hours. In today's busy society, most young working couples with children, a house, responsibilities, elderly parents, etc. just don't have that amount of time. And unless they are deep spiritually, it's too long for them.

    I live in Canada and the only thing that people really hear about the Anglican Church here is that it can't make up its mind about homosexuals. They need to take a definite stand, one way or the other, and move on. We need to be known for our faith and love and not for arguing over homosexuality. To that I would add, most people know what the Holy Bible says about homosexuality. You can ignore it, you can even disagree with it, but you can't change it. When God says something, it's said, period.
     
  10. willkar

    willkar New Member

    Posts:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Country:
    united states
    Religion:
    anglican
     
  11. willkar

    willkar New Member

    Posts:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Country:
    united states
    Religion:
    anglican
    I undestand about taking kids to church. When my kids where young I think I and my wife where praying they would behave and the priest have a short sermon? Pe0ple do have better things to do than to sit in church for a long time.When you fell that mass is never going to end look up at the curcrfix or cross and remember the three hours Christ was on the cross for you. As for homosexual I' am against same sex marriage in the churcho I' not really for it at all. If they're raising a family and want to join the church they can. As for becoming bishops or priests not unless they agree to live in celebrant
     
  12. 7sacraments

    7sacraments Member

    Posts:
    43
    Likes Received:
    25
    Country:
    Canada
    Religion:
    Liberal Anglo-Catholic
    As the onehere,though fairly new that states he is a liberal, there is currently nothing that I oppose in the Anglican Communion. The ACNA is a different story but that's me and I WILL NOT try to convince ACNA members otherwise.
     
  13. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

    Posts:
    169
    Likes Received:
    56
    Religion:
    Anglican
    I am against woman ordination and believe in the traditional biblical views on what constitutes sexual sins.
    So what does that make me? I believe what the church has always taught tell recently. So what ever this makes me, makes me the same as the historical church. So what would you call Peter or Paul on these issues.
     
    Brigid likes this.
  14. 7sacraments

    7sacraments Member

    Posts:
    43
    Likes Received:
    25
    Country:
    Canada
    Religion:
    Liberal Anglo-Catholic
    Peter is you recall in acts was a faithful evangelist to the Good news but still was stubborn to the Levitical laws even when it clear he could starve to death due to them. Acts 11-5-9

    as for paul the KJV of Romans 12:2

    "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
     
  15. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,189
    Likes Received:
    1,939
    "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Exactly! We are called to remove ourselves from the corruption of the present culture and live lives of true holiness in conformity with the will of God as revealed in his Word.
     
    Brigid, Alkayus and Rev2104 like this.
  16. 7sacraments

    7sacraments Member

    Posts:
    43
    Likes Received:
    25
    Country:
    Canada
    Religion:
    Liberal Anglo-Catholic
    And called to Renew our minds....did you some how miss that part....renewal doesn't mean dealing in comfortable facts or not having preconceptions blown apart.
     
  17. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

    Posts:
    169
    Likes Received:
    56
    Religion:
    Anglican
    Renew as in renew in christ. Not renew as in rewrite the faith.
    We have one faith delivered once to the saints.
     
    Brigid, RBrown, Alkayus and 1 other person like this.
  18. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,189
    Likes Received:
    1,939
    Rev answered this quite ably. The portion of the verse that speaks of renewing of one's mind is in the context of not being conformed to the world, that's why they are connected by "but be transformed by", using reason to interpret this verse it clear that the renewing of your mind refers to the inward work of the holy ghost that transforms one's behavior and lifestyle, which is outward proof that you faith and repentance is real and manifests itself in good works and godly living, which is set up against the lifestyle exemplifies as being "conformed to this world".
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
    Alkayus and Rev2104 like this.
  19. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,189
    Likes Received:
    1,939
    Trying to read the "renewing" language outside the "not conformed/but transformed" context is not a reasonable interpretation and certainly neither a traditional nor scriptural one. A reasonable person recognizes that words are given meaning by the context in which he finds them and cannot be pried loose by the reader to be used to mean whatever he wants it to mean. That's intellectually dishonest. To get the message of the writer, one must read the words the way the writer intended not whichever way is most rhetorically expedient. A good rule for hermeneutics is: A text without a context is a pretext for a proof text.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
    Alkayus, highchurchman and Rev2104 like this.
  20. Pog

    Pog Member

    Posts:
    41
    Likes Received:
    2
    The big problem I have with Anglicanism is it current split into philosophical liberals and theological conservatives and traditionalists, neither of which is a good fit for me as a broad church/centrist post- evangelical.

    I don't fit with the liberals because I don't agree with homosexual bishops or pluralism, for example.

    But neither do I fit with those who wish to go back to formative Anglicanism and forget a couple of hundred years of development because I'm an Arminian (open theist), for example.

    Which I consider a great shame, as I like the via media approach of Anglicanism, I like its attempt to balance Reformed scriptural sensibilities with catholic history and tradition, I like the great theologians of both historic and modern Anglicanism, and much more besides. But it seems that with the increasing dichotomisation of Anglicanism there is no place for the broad church, or for socially/ morally conservative but theologically progressive Christians.