What do you think of the signs & wonders?

Discussion in 'Questions?' started by Lowly Layman, May 10, 2016.

  1. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Hello all,

    With blessed Whit Sunday (Pentecost) approaching, I was curious to see your thoughts on the "signs and wonders" of the pentecostal/charismatic movement. Can they be incorporated into the more traditional forms of Anglican worship and life? Should they?
     
  2. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    It seems to have become very fashionable in my part of the world to call the feast Pentecost, and not Whit Sunday, to ask to congregation to wear red to church, and to celebrate with the Church decorated with red balloons as the Church's birthday party. I can get a bit cranky about this which I feel is a bit theologically light-weight.

    Come Holy Ghost our Souls inspire, and lighten with celestial fire
     
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  3. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    Let's call a spade a spade, charismatics just get on my nerves!!!:disgust:
     
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  4. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    One wonders what such novelties might be:
    1. Perhaps a ceremony of new fire (perhaps that is a bit too much like Easter a bit late)
    2. Perhaps we could sing in other languages (Veni Creator Spiritus springs to mind)
    3. Perhaps we could get the children to run around making lots of noise and banging things (Family Service)
    4. Perhaps we could highlight the invocation of the Holy Spirit in the Eucharistic Prayer (Epiclesis)
    5. Perhaps we could make it a special day for Baptism remembering the Holy Spirit who moved over on the water at creation
    6. Perhaps we could recommit ourselves to the great tasks of Mission and get the congregation to recite the 5 marks of Mission
    7. Perhaps we could remember God as near as breathing and ponder what God is empowering us to do and to be.
    8. Perhaps we could omit the filioque from the the Nicene Creed and so remove the 2nd order often applied to the Spirit by Christians.
    9. Perhaps we could release a thousand turtledoves with bible verses tied to the legs and so spread the word.
    I do apologise for my earlier post about the Birthday Party, I do understand the point, I just regret that it seems it can result in some sort of trivialising of the great matter of the Spirit and the Mission of the Church. I am not against parties or having fun - even if sometimes I seem a little jaded.
     
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  5. Christina

    Christina Active Member

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    God can do signs and wonders in this day and age if he wants to and we need to be open to that. But it's not necessary to artificially try to incorporate signs and wonders into traditional Anglican worship. When I attended a charismatic University Christian Union the message seemed to be that most"born again Christians" should have the gift is speaking in tongues - which is just plain wrong.
     
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  6. zimkhitha

    zimkhitha Active Member

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    The Spirit has never stopped working; I must say though that just like Brother Aidan..charismatics get to my nerves because I spent quite a number of years with them, feeling like a second grade Christian who was given a reason why she won't go to heaven every Sunday i.e I did not speak in tongues, I did not tithe, I was no re-baptized.

    The feelings debacle that got displayed as the workings of the Spirit made me wonder if the folk at the night club down the road were also filled with the Spirit (I just couldn't tell the difference anymore).
     
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  7. Madeline

    Madeline Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Aidan, Christina and zimkhitha. So much outward show, so much group pressure, so unlike Matthew 6:5-6 where Jesus tells us not to make a big spectacle.

    Just on a personal note, the best I strive for is to be aligned with God's will. I feel a surge of joy, which may be the Holy Spirit, when by prayer and study and inspiration I'm listening to His will. That inward glow is worth a boatload of glossolalia to me.
     
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  8. zimkhitha

    zimkhitha Active Member

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    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness - Galatians 5:22

    This sums it up for me.
     
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  9. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    It's so wonderful just to sit in silence with The Lord, the way we do with a loved one
     
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  10. Madeline

    Madeline Well-Known Member

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    Aidan, you'd make a good Quaker. :halo:
     
  11. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the complement sister but nobody has a monopoly on silence. Thank God
     
  12. CWJ

    CWJ Active Member

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    I think the charismatic movement and manifestations can range from genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit (after all many saints were known for the gift of healing and did have visions)...all the way to the opposite end and straight up and literally demonic (rolling around, convulsing and laughing).

    So I believe discernment is most definitely needed, to say the least :)
     
  13. Madeline

    Madeline Well-Known Member

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    The thing that rings untrue to me about the charismatic need to "artificially try to incorporate signs and wonders", as Christina put it, is that it's Holy-Spirit-on-demand. To ask for God's help and guidance to try to do good in the world - great. To ask God to show up for entertainment - not great.
     
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  14. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    I think much of the 'bally hoo' surrounding 'Revivalist' auto suggestion and blatant audience manipulation, is visual evidence of 'burst wine skins' and 'spilled wine'. If people are not properly instructed, presented with the gospel, and soberly minded, open to regeneration in heart and mind, they will become merely 'intoxicated with The Spirit' and the last of the Fruit of the Spirit, "Self Control" will be vacant. Maybe the extent of the lack of 'self control' is proportional to the necessary healing going on. I don't know. Matt.9:17, Mk.2:22, Lk.5:37-38. I know I don't see anything very 'wonderful' about split wine skins and spilled wine though. Jesus did not seem to recommend it. And I speak as an avowed Charismatic Christian.

    To my mind such exhibitions are perhaps evidence of a chaotic unregenerate life being regenerated, or perhaps the birth pangs of a 'forceps spiritual birth delivery', in need of intensive care. Certainly not a 'natural rebirth'.

    But if the fruits are good, who is to complain?
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  15. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Active Member Anglican

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    They no doubt occur but also no doubt there are many charlatans or enthusiastics
     

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