What about calendars in Europe marking Monday as the 1st day of the week

Discussion in 'Feasts, Fasts, and Church Calendar' started by rstrats, Apr 16, 2014.

  1. peter

    peter Active Member

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    If Saturday is the day of rest, it should be the day of worship - that way people are off work and can attend church. The fact that Sunday has been the universal day for worship in almost all denominations for centuries proves the point - for a Christian, Sunday is the Sabbath.

    The seventh day, Sunday.

    I'm counting back. Sunday is the day of rest and has been seen that way by Christians for a very long time now. That makes Sunday the last day ("On the seventh day He rested") and counting back Monday is the first day.
     
  2. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't it make sense that God would start his creative work on 'The Day of The Lord', (Lord's Day) which would be the 'first day', i.e. what was to become, Sunday. It would, after all have been the first day, (scripture says so). Gen.1:5. (Scripture does not tell us how many hours, months, years, millenium, etc were in that first day. There was nothing yet made by which it could be measured). He then rested on Saturday, marking the end of the week. (That's if it took a literal and measured 'calendar week', which, by our scientific understanding and reason, is by no means certain either).
    .
     
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  3. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    If that's true, then we Christians have abrogated one of the Ten Commandments, and are all of us, with our messiah, false impostors in the faith and religion of Abraham, and the Jews have been right about us all along

    Thankfully, for most of our history until the last few decades or so, the Church has had clarity that Saturday is the sabbath day, and Sunday is the Lord's day



    I don't think the data of Scripture support this exegesis, as he entered the day on Palm Sunday, the day following the Sabbath, and was resurrected seven days after



    Both Saturday and Sunday are 'days of rest' in our civil life, so I see no indication of what you are saying
     
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  4. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Excellent points, all!
     
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  5. Liturgyworks

    Liturgyworks Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I agree on this point.

    Also let us not forget that Pascha, Easter Sunday, is not only the first day of the week but also alludes to the eschatological eighth day of the week, the dawn of the Resurrection and the life of the world to come. :)
     
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  6. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Liturgyworks,

    re: "Also let us not forget that Pascha, Easter Sunday, is not only the first day of the week but also alludes to the eschatological eighth day of the week..."

    Just so it's understood that scripture never refers to the first day of the week as the eighth day. I think there may be some who think that is does.
     
  7. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    peter,

    I asked: "Do you believe the resurrection occurred on the 7th day of the week or on the 1st day of the week?"

    You responded: "The seventh day, Sunday."

    I think most folks believe the resurrection occurred on the 1st day of the week. And Mark 16:9 - as it is translated in the KJV and similar versions - seems to support that idea.
     
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  8. peter

    peter Active Member

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    Mark would have been brought up on the Jewish calender, which of course treats Sunday as the first day of the week, since Saturday, The Sabbath, is the seventh. Clearly, the Christian calender treats Sunday as the day of rest, and therefore it logically follows that Monday is the first day of the week.
     
  9. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    The Jewish calendar is the Christian calendar. Christianity is Judaism fulfilled. To alter Judaism would be to violate the law of God and to make the Old Testament as obsolete, which is the heresy of Marcionism. Christ came to fulfill the Law, not to repeal it. Sunday was always treated as the first day of the week, by the Church Fathers, in the middle ages, and by the Anglican divines. The first ones to treat Sunday as the sabbath were the schismatical Puritans, who launched a sabbatarian controversy but were repulsed by the Anglican divines who rejected their arguments:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritan_Sabbatarianism
    Sunday Sabbatarianism as jure divino or divinely ordained command, in contrast to non-Sabbatarian and antinomian reliance on Christian liberty, thus was a closely linked development to the regulative principle amongst English Protestants over the 17th century.[1] Stricter observance of Lord's Day arose in England and Scotland, in reaction to the Prelatic laxity with which Sunday observance was customarily kept, which included recreations classified as lawful. Opposed also by seventh-day Sabbatarians John Traske, Theophilus Brabourne, and the Seventh-day Baptists, some Puritans stated that Sabbath was a proportion (one-seventh) rather than a particular day (either Saturday or Sunday),[1] while others further specifically identified the first day as Christian Sabbath.

    Puritan Sabbatarianism is enshrined in its most mature expression, the Westminster Confession of Faith (1646), in the Calvinist theological tradition
     
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  10. Liturgyworks

    Liturgyworks Well-Known Member Anglican

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    You are entirely correct on this point! :clap:

    Indeed two of the most important Jewish holidays, Pascha and Pentecost, are central in Christianity. We did abandon the Day of Atonement, but some churches do celebrate the beginning of their ecclesiastical year (which in the Coptic and Byzantine church, tends to happen around the same time as Rosh Hashanah, whereas in the Syriac Orthodox, Maronite, Assyrian, and the Western churches, it starts either just before Advent or on the first Sunday of Advent). One could argue the only thing we are missing is the Feast of Tabernacles, which does contain some typological signifigance as a Christological prophecy, however, since the early church did not deign to include it, it would be pointless for us to include it. We also lack Purim, but that holiday in my opinion would only make sense for Christians with the longer version of Esther, which adds a theological-soteriological dimension to the story, but every feast of a martyr, and indeed, Pascha itself, have the effect of making Purim superfluous.
     
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  11. Liturgyworks

    Liturgyworks Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Indeed. The Eighth Day concept is based on the implications of Scripture vs. a direct quotation.
     
  12. Liturgyworks

    Liturgyworks Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Indeed, I think you are completely correct on this. Some Roman Catholics argue their church moved the Sabbath, but this is preposterous and is contradicted by their own Paschal Triduum.
     
  13. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    I think your 'reasoning' is your undoing here. The fact that Christians keep the 'Lord's Day' on the 1st day of each week now, bears no logical connection to the day of the week God supposedly rested at the end of His creative activity. The Sabbath (7th day), has always been held by Jews to be the last day of the week. If a week has only 7 days then the next day after the 7th day must be the first day of the next week, which we Christians hold 'sacred' in honour and remembrance of The Lord who rose again on the 1st day of the week, which has to be Sunday, if the last day of the previous week was Saturday, (The Sabbath).

    We have not 'moved' the Sabbath, we simply celebrate and honour Sunday instead, because it no longer matters which day we 'rest upon'. Col.2:16 We are not tied to the law in that way anymore. Anymore than Jesus our Lord was 'tied' to Sabbath observance by edict of the Pharisees. Jesus made the point that the Sabbath was a day 'to do good on', and was 'made for man', not a day 'to do nothing on' being afraid to upset a vengeful and controlling God, so fearfully we must obediently keep times and seasons laid down in 'the law', for fear of losing our salvation. Sunday worship therefore becomes an act of faith in the Lordship of Jesus, (who is Lord of the Sabbath), Matt.12:8, Mk.2:28, Lk.6:5, Lk.13:14-21, and the character of God, who sees further into the human conscience and weighs heavier matters than an insistance on a particular day of the week we must worship Him on. Kingdom principles are higher and provide greater assurances of salvation, than blind, unthinking obedience to merely temporal calendar rules, however well intentioned. Lk.13:18-21.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  14. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    More than that, there was no understanding that Sunday was the day of rest. Sundays were permitted as days of work for most of Christian history, until this puritan misunderstanding the the Law took over in the 19th century.

    The only reason we even have the divine service on Sunday mornings (apart from revering the 1st day of the week, and the day of the Resurrection), is because according to the Jewish calendar the day begins in the evening, and ends in the morning. So Sunday morning is actually, by the Jewish calendar, the end of Saturday.

    If we do want to connect the Divine Service to the day of the Sabbath, to "keeping the 7th day holy" etc, then the only times which are permitted to hold the divine service are Saturday evenings, and Sunday mornings. Which is WHY we have things like Christmas Eve, Easter Vigil, etc. The day begins then, not the next morning! The morning is the last permissible time to make the liturgical observance.
     
  15. peter

    peter Active Member

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    The Ten Commandments are contained in scripture - twice in fact. They are mentioned by Christ with approval. They appear at the start of the BCP Communion Service. They are the central moral tenants of the Anglican faith. The Commandments say to keep holy the Sabbath. Sundays are therefore not a permissable working day. Working on Sunday contravenes the Commandments. Of this I am absolutely certain.
     
  16. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Then you had better keep the Sabbath then, and while you are at it, everything else in the law that constitutes your supposed guarantee of salvation.

    There seems to be a few things in the scriptures that you may have missed. However it is a good thing for you to try to keep the law, it is perfect. Unfortunately you and the rest of mankind are not, so good luck with your life's project.

    What do you intend to do about that?

    I am grateful that someone else has done something about it. I trust Him and He stuck up for his disciples when they came under criticism for working on the Sabbath. Luke 6:1-12.

    Perhaps, I would suggest, what He did in verse 12 might be worth your effort.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
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  17. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I don't see anyone disputing that the Ten Commandments are sacred scripture, and we are to keep them to the end of the world... Nor that Sabbath is the holiest day of the week and we are to keep it! I suppose the one question is, what is the day that should count as the Sabbath, from an intrinsic as well as a historical perspective?
     
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  18. peter

    peter Active Member

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    Tiffy, maybe you should have a look at Mark 10:17-19, when Christ responded to the question of "what must I do to inherit eternal life" with "though knowest the commandments" and then listed a sample of the Ten. The Ten Commandments arguably have a particular status above the remainder of the Mosaic Law. I agree that the Law is good and perfect, it is the word of God and why anyone who believes in God would not feel that they should follow certainly the commandments touching morality would be utterly beyond me. As for Luke 6, I would say (and others have said) that a reasonable interpretation of this passage is not that the Law is to be ignored, but that it is not to be enforced in an overbearing, pernicious manner in the way of the Pharisees. Without criticism to anyone's particular practices, you could look for instance at Hasidic Jewish interpreations of the commandment to keep holy the Sabbath which proclude the use of electricity. It would not be in my mind an unreasonable view to say that this would be excessive and might perhaps give rise to a similar situation as that which led to Christ's criticism in Luke 6. The fact remains however that God said to keep holy the Sabbath by refraining from work.
     
  19. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I follow the argument, however based on the premise, then surely it is Saturdays are not permissible for work, but Sandays are OK.
     
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  20. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    We have come full circle in that we now need once again to definitively establish with certainty which day of the week is actually the Sabbath on which we are supposed to rest, (both ourselves, and more importantly, others we may employ or accept service from, to rest from workaday activities and enjoy the recreation the Sabbath is designed and intended to provide for our and their benefit). Mark 2:27.

    The Sabbath has never been Sunday, it has always been Saturday, but that alone does not preclude the fact that it is perfectly permissable for an individual to rest on any other day of the week as well. What is forbidden is forcing your slaves, employees or servants to work seven days a week. (Which is what Pharaoh did when he forced the Israelites to make bricks without even providing any straw for their manufacture. Exodus 5:18. Exodus 12:14-17.)

    But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Ex.20:10.

    The sabbath law was designed to prevent exploitation of the workforce, not to enforce inactivity on the individual. Therefore it is permitted for individuals to work on the sabbath, provided, they are doing so voluntarily and are allowed rest and recreation on some other day of the week.

    This principle illustrates the difference between slavish adherence to the letter of the law and compliance with understanding to the spirit of the law. Rom.2:29, Rom.7:6, 2 Cor.3:6.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019