What about calendars in Europe marking Monday as the 1st day of the week

Discussion in 'Feasts, Fasts, and Church Calendar' started by rstrats, Apr 16, 2014.

  1. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    In the United States, many Christians say that they observe Sunday, the first day of the week, at least in part, to commemorate the resurrection which they believe took place on the first day of the week. However, many areas of Europe use a calendar that has Sunday as the seventh day of the week. Does anyone know, in those areas that use that calendar, on what day they hold their weekly worship services? If they hold it on the seventh day, do they also do anything special on the first day in celebration of the resurrection?
     
  2. Mockingbird

    Mockingbird Member

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    Since very early the Jewish Sabbath has been identified with Saturday in the Roman seven-day planetary week. This make Sunday the first day of the Jewish week. For Christian purposes, the Jewish count applies, whatever others may use in other contexts.
     
  3. seagull

    seagull Active Member

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    We were always brought up to believe that Sunday was the first day of the week, and for me, for what it's worth, I suppose it still is. But certainly the secular calendar thinks otherwise: both my diary and the calendars it includes bear witness to that. And the BBC have (or at least had) a programme called "Start the Week": on a Monday. And Sunday is part of the weekend.
     
  4. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Someone new looking in may have the information requested in the OP.
     
  5. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know.
     
  6. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    I think most people, regardless of what day of the week someone else tells them is 'the first one', meet for worship on a Sunday, if Christian, on a Saturday, if Jewish and on a Friday, if Moslem. There are some exceptions, such as Seventh Day Adventists, who adopt the Jewish practice of worship on the Saturday for 'religious' reasons, but I know of nobody who worships on a Monday, mistakenly thinking it to be the day of resurrection, rather than it having been merely declared by a secular authority, the 'first day of the secular working week'.

    As to the thread question: If anyone is worshiping on Sunday, (what you call the 7th day), why would they worship as well on Monday, just because an atheist tells them it is the first day of the atheist week? It really would take an ignorant Christian to fall for the notion that 'resurrection day' can be 'moved' from Sunday to Monday, by an edict from a secular organization.

    However you may get some who will let you know whether they actually do do something 'special' on Monday as well. Let's wait and see.
     
  7. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Tiffy,
    re: "I think most people, regardless of what day of the week someone else tells them is 'the first one', meet for worship on a Sunday, if Christian..."


    So you're saying that Christians rest and worship on what ever day of the week is labeled "Sunday" regardless of the day of the week. Do you have any scripture for that practice?
     
  8. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    No. Should I need some?

    I have no scripture for my practice of doing the shopping on Thursday, attending a football match on Saturday or eating Christmas pudding of the 25th Dec.

    Do you need scripture for your practices?
     
  9. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Tiffy,
    re: "No."

    OK, no problem. I was merely curious if any day labeled "Sunday" had some scriptural specialness to it.
     
  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    Yes. "Sunday" was the day on which Jewish and Gentile Christians rose early in the morning to meet together, often in secret when under persecution, to greet the sunrise in commemoration of the risen Christ, who rose again to life, (according to the witnesses), on the day immediately following the Jewish Sabbath. Most Christians have held "The Lord's Day" as being special, in one way or another, ever since.

    I suppose the scriptural warrant for doing so, on that particular day would be the numerous scripture references stating that Jesus rose on the 3rd day, having died the day before The Jewish Sabbath. By coincidence the day name 'Sunday' happens also to be reflected in the Old English name for Sunday, Sunnandæg, meaning "day of the sun." Old English was the language of the Anglo-Saxons. In Germanic mythology the sun is personified as a goddess variously named Sunna or Sól (Sun in Old Norse). Coincidentally it turns out to be fortuitous for Christians because Jesus is also known as "The Light of The World". Hence "Sun-day" seems appropriate, even if it happens to appear to coincide with the day name of an ancient, non existent, pagan goddess.
     
  11. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Tiffy,
    re: "'Sunday' was the day on which Jewish and Gentile Christians rose early in the morning to meet together, often in secret when under persecution, to greet the sunrise in commemoration of the risen Christ...

    Just so it's understood that scripture is silent with regard to the practice. Nowhere does it say that anyone met on the first day of the week in commemoration/recognition of the resurrection.



    re: "Most Christians have held 'The Lord's Day' as being special, in one way or another, ever since."

    Just so it's understood, as stated above, that there is no scriptural instruction or practice given or shown for observing the first day of the week in honor of the resurrection. And likewise, just so it's understood that there is no scripture that ever refers to the first day of the week as "The Lord's Day".
     
  12. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    Rev.1:9-11 ? I think that refers to the Lord's Day, don't you?

    "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet".

    So it was common practice when John wrote this. Everyone already knew what the Lord's Day was, otherwise no one would have known what he was referring to.

    Do we need a "scriptural instruction or practice given or shown for observing the first day of the week", then?

    We do it because Christians before us did it. Right back as far as anyone has memory or historical evidence of, and probably before. It is a tradition of The Church, which has been doing it for around nearly 2000 years.

    Get used to it. :laugh:

    As I said before, I need no scriptural warrant or command to regulate the day I decide to do the shopping or go to a football match. Why then should I need 'scripture' to tell me when to go to church or take a day off my daily labours or be specially grateful to Jesus for providing for our Salvation? 2 Cor.3:17.
     
  13. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Tiffy,
    re: "Rev.1:9-11 ? I think that refers to the Lord's Day, don't you?"

    Yes, that's what verse 10 says. But it doesn't identify the Lord's Day as the 1st day of the week.



    re: "'I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet'. So it was common practice when John wrote this. Everyone already knew what the Lord's Day was, otherwise no one would have known what he was referring to."

    What documentation do you have to prove that everyone at the time knew that verse 10 had to be referring to the 1st day of the week?



    re: "Do we need a 'scriptural instruction or practice given or shown for observing the first day of the week', then?"

    Maybe, maybe not. But in case someone thinks otherwise, I was merely pointing out that scripture is silent with regard to anyone observing the first day of the week in recognition of the resurrection.
     
  14. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 2:2-3
    And on the seventh day God finished the work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all the work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all the work that he had done in creation.​

    Clearly here we see that ancient tradition and practice regarded saturday (sabbath) as the seventh day.

    There are only two natural conclusions to draw from this
    1. Sunday is the first day of the week
    2. Sunday is the eighth day of the week
    As Christians we have accepted both these conclusions. Sunday as the first day of Creation and as the eighth day the first day of the new creation. For Anglicans this is often understated in the baptismal font within and octagonal pedestal.
     
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  15. Tiffy

    Tiffy Active Member

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    Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first. Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can. So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch. Matt.27:62-66.

    The day of preparation would be the day before the Saturday Sabbath which for Jews begins at sunset on Friday and ends at sunset on Saturday. The Jewish authorities therefore were concerned that Jesus should be safely sealed in the tomb until after the third day after his death, which would have been Sunday, the first day of the week. Jesus died before sunset on the day before the Sabbath started at sunset on Friday night. That was day one. The Sabbath started at sunset on Friday night, that is day two. The third day therefore would have been Sunday, starting from Sunset Saturday night.

    In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. Matt.28:1-2.

    The day following the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday, beginning Saturday night at sunset according to Jewish time keeping practice, Mary Magdalene came at daybreak on Sunday Morning to find that Christ had already risen.

    Had you never noticed this reference or have you been indoctrinated to believe that scripture has no reference to Sunday being the first day of the week? It seems fairly obvious that the Lord's Day must logically be the day of the week upon which The Lord rose from the dead. The scripture I have cited here seems to confirm the fact that that happened in the early hours of the first day of the week, which is the day that follows the last day of the week, which is The Sabbath Day on which God is believed to have rested from creative activity and subsequently declared holy.

    Why should we not recognize Sunday, the first day of the week, the day upon which Mary Magdalene found the open tomb, as the beginning of the New Creation and symbolic of our 'Newness in Christ', and regeneration in the power of The Holy Spirit? The fact is that The Church has met together, (initially at sunrise on Sunday), the first day of the week, for as long as the church can remember, and why therefore should it discontinue this practice?

    Much of the confusion over the chronology of these events is due to our practice of marking the transition from one 'day' to another at midnight. The ancients could not do that because there were no clocks and no one therefore knew when midnight had occurred. They knew when sunset and sunrise happened though, so they measured days from sunset to sunset, rather than from midnight to midnight.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  16. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Tiffy,
    re: "Why should we not recognize Sunday, the first day of the week, the day upon which Mary Magdalene found the open tomb, as the beginning of the New Creation and symbolic of our 'Newness in Christ', and regeneration in the power of The Holy Spirit? The fact is that The Church has met together, (initially at sunrise on Sunday), the first day of the week, for as long as the church can remember, and why therefore should it discontinue this practice?"

    I don't know, maybe it should be recognized. I'm simply pointing out that scripture is silent with regard to anyone observing the first day of the week for rest and worship or in recognition of the resurrection. I think there may be some who believe in the false idea that it is scriptural.
    =======================================================

    A few comments on other parts of your post:

    re: "The day of preparation would be the day before the Saturday Sabbath which for Jews begins at sunset on Friday and ends at sunset on Saturday."

    Not always. John 19:14 says that it was the preparation day of the the passover (a day that can occur on any day of the week). The Greek word translated "preparation" here is paraskeue. That it is not a Jewish technical term which can only mean the day before the weekly Sabbath is attested to by a number of sources, for example:

    Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament says - "...in the N.T. in a Jewish sense, the day of preparation, i.e. the day on which the Jews made the necessary preparation to celebrate a sabbath or a feast..." (my emphasis)

    The New Unger's Bible Dictionary - "Preparation (Gk. paraskeue, a 'making ready'). In the Jewish sense, the day of preparation...was the day on which the Jews made the necessary preparation to celebrate a Sabbath ... or festival..." (my emphasis)

    A Rabbinic Commentary of the New Testament - Rabbi Samuel Lacks states, "The day of preparation (Greek paraskeue) equals Friday or the day before a holiday." (my emphasis)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    re: "The Jewish authorities therefore were concerned that Jesus should be safely sealed in the tomb until after the third day after his death, which would have been Sunday, the first day of the week."

    Actually, if the crucifixion had taken place on the 6th day of the week, then the third day after His death would have been the 2nd day of the week.
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    re: "Jesus died before sunset on the day before the Sabbath started at sunset on Friday night."

    Friday night would have been over some 9 hours by the time of the Messiah's death.
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    re: "That was day one."

    Yes, calendar day 1 and daytime 1.


    re: "The Sabbath started at sunset on Friday night..."

    Actually, it would have been at sunset at the end of the daytime of the 6th calendar day of the week and not the night time.


    re: "...that is day two."

    Yes, calendar day 2 and night time 1 and daytime 2.


    re: "The third day therefore would have been Sunday, starting from Sunset Saturday night.

    Yes, calendar day 3 and night time 2 and possibly daytime 3.

    BTW, how do you account for the lack of the 3rd night time that the Messiah had forecast as being involved with His stay in the "heart of the earth"?
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    re: "The day following the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday, beginning Saturday night at sunset according to Jewish time keeping practice, Mary Magdalene came at daybreak on Sunday Morning to find that Christ had already risen. Had you never noticed this reference...?"

    I have indeed noticed it.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    re: "...have you been indoctrinated to believe that scripture has no reference to Sunday being the first day of the week?"

    Not indoctrinated; I've seen personally that there aren't any scriptures which refer to the 1st day of the week as Sunday.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    re: "Much of the confusion over the chronology of these events is due to our practice of marking the transition from one 'day' to another at midnight. The ancients could not do that because there were no clocks and no one therefore knew when midnight had occurred. They knew when sunset and sunrise happened though, so they measured days from sunset to sunset, rather than from midnight to midnight."

    You've lost me. I don't see what that has to do with the argument for observing the first day of the week for rest and worship or in recognition of the resurrection.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019

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