Vatican infiltrated by soviet agents?

Discussion in 'Non-Anglican Discussion' started by Aidan, Aug 25, 2017.

  1. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    Ive just finished reading a book which posits an interesting theory that the Holy See has been, over a number of years, infiltrated by communist agents. What do forum members think of this theory ?
     
  2. PotterMcKinney

    PotterMcKinney Active Member Typist Anglican

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    Sounds like hokum to me, possibly American, anti-Catholic rhetoric (a long tradition).
     
  3. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    The writer is a former US Communist Party member who converted to Roman Catholicism in the sixties. The aim was to destroy the Church from within
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  4. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    What is the book, Aidan?

    I actually think there's pretty credible evidence that the Soviet Union has infiltrated the seminaries of western churches in the 30s and 40s, leading to a crop of liberal theologians that suddenly appeared in leadership positions across the board: Roman Catholics, Episcopalians, the Church of England, the World Lutheran Federation etc.


    It all happened at the same time, they all appeared practically in the same 4-5 years.

    And to be honest their plan basically worked and all of the churches they infiltrated have today been more or less destroyed, or turned toward the cause of communism. If the Soviet Union remained alive just a decade or two more, they would've found the Western Churches turned drastically in its favor from the inside, which is radically different from how the Churches viewed the soviet union before the 1960s. The chances of it being accidental are pretty slim.
     
  5. ACC congregant

    ACC congregant Member

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    As a practicing RC, I very much believe that the church has been infiltrated in some ways. What gives me hope is our Lord's parable of the wheat and the tares and that one day He will reveal all and restore all. Much blessings to the continuing Anglicans but I just felt I needed to go back to the RCC. God bless you all and hope your synod in Atlanta will bring about much needed reconciliation. God bless the ACNA as well. Amazing what is happening there!
     
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  6. Ide

    Ide Active Member

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    I do not believe that it is just the RCC which was afflicted by this phenomenon, but churches worldwide. Yes, it seems to be too large a coincidence that as soon as the churches turn to Leftist politics, they take a major downturn. The newest fad of Social Justice pushed by the churches have little to nothing to do with Christian doctrine but represent the cause célèbre hot in the culture at the moment. I remember a few months about how Standing Rock was the most essential social movement of our day, now it's.. who knows.. Transgender people in the military? The mainline churches have been gutted from the inside out. The religion is the social justice, not Christianity.

    I would say that it is more of an element of Socialist/Marxist ideas being taught and permeated in society and people adopting these into all facets of life rather than an old-school Soviet style infiltration. If you have been to college in the last decade, there is little in the way of traditional Western education being taught in the humanities and is totally aping the "intersectionality" and critical theory ideology. Of course once people are taught and spread these idea it will worm it's way into the wider culture.
     
  7. PotterMcKinney

    PotterMcKinney Active Member Typist Anglican

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    I don't think it was so much a conspiracy as it was liberal (not really communist, if they were communist liberalism isn't what we'd have) ideas being disseminated into society at large and academia, which of course includes seminaries.
     
  8. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Liberalism and conservativism have been around in America since at least the early 1900s, and I would argue into the 19th century, so it doesn't explain why we have what we have now...

    I tend to think about it this way, namely today the churches are such a tool of the DNC establishment, pushing in favor of illegal immigration, advocating globalism, opposing sovereignty, strongly promoting redistribution of wealth, moral relativism, and many other such socialistic ideas. If you think it's always been this way, look no further back than the Church in the 1950s, when it was a strong advocate of rule of law, national sovereignty, promoting individual responsibility, and objective moral ethics of right and wrong, good and evil. It was clear that in the 1950s the Church was the supporter of what today would be called conservativism.

    Just imagine all of the TEC bishops opposing illegal immigration, clamoring for one nation 'under God', speaking strongly about good and evil, hell and damnation, and vocally opposing socialistic ideals and governments around the world!

    How did it happen that while the balance in America on the whole remained the same, the Church was moved solidly into the leftist/socialistic column? It seems quite fishy to me...
     
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  9. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    The Anglican fathers would say it's been infiltrated by papists, lol.
     
  10. PotterMcKinney

    PotterMcKinney Active Member Typist Anglican

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    I really wouldn't consider any of that socialistic in the slightest.
     
  11. Brigid

    Brigid Active Member Anglican

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    Neither would I.
     
  12. Anglo-cracker

    Anglo-cracker Member Anglican

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    I tend to disbelieve conspiracy theories, but there may be something to it.
     
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  13. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I am certain there is a conspiracy... Satan conspires with his servants, trying to get humans to yield to temptations. From that, all manner of evils proceed forth.

    Both Marxism and socialism are rooted in greed and in disobedience to the Tenth Commandment: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods. Yes, redistribution of wealth is socialist and the push for it springs from greed and envy.... men who want the government to take from others and give to them (rationalizing that it's all right if some of it goes to some more like them who are "poor" or "in need").

    Marxism has taken hold among a large portion of RC clergy, according to what I've read, but I don't know that it has anything to do with a Russian conspiracy. Much of it may be the pie-in-the-sky idealism of people who never had to hold a job, earn their keep, and pay their bills out of what they earned. When one never runs out of other people's money, one can easily buy into foolish notions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  14. Anglo-cracker

    Anglo-cracker Member Anglican

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    We have some Cuban refugees here in Florida who could add to what you have said. Communists don't like to compete with God. In Cuba. at one time, churches were required to display a portrait of comrade Castro inside the front entrance.
     
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  15. Jeffg

    Jeffg Active Member

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    The religion is the social justice, not Christianity.

    Very much like this... these days you read the reader boards on the liberal churchs and it IS all social justice..You don't hear the Gospel preached...Loving your neiboure is differant than the social justice preached on the sides of the churchs'. I've said before, the day's of good catechises amongs most church's is a thing of the past. By appearances (on the sides of the liberal church's and the so called fundamentalist/conservative televangelist) are preaching about the current social-political hot topic of the day, not salvation through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. What ever happened to the Ten Commandments, the Beatitudes, etc ?? Wish I could see a banner with the Ten Commandments on the side of a liberal church instead of a political statment about whatever topic
     
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  16. Brigid

    Brigid Active Member Anglican

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  17. Brigid

    Brigid Active Member Anglican

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    I must say, that's one thing I really appreciate about the LCMS (and most of the time about the RCC) they preach about the actual Gospel and not about social justice either liberal or conservative!
     
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  18. Jeffg

    Jeffg Active Member

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    As a person who grew up ELCA, I am appreciateing the LCMA and even the WELC more and more. If you want ultra conservitive Lutheranism, check out the Concordia Lutheran Conferance http://www.concordialutheranconf.com/.