transubstantiation

Discussion in 'Sacraments, Sacred Rites, and Holy Orders' started by mark fisher, Aug 24, 2022.

  1. Clayton

    Clayton Active Member

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    There are many elements of the faith that you could probably dispense with and still manage to be genuinely Christian.

    A church house can be as barren of ornament as you like but still filled with the Holy Spirit. But that doesn’t mean a church house must be a dreary, spartan affair. On the other hand no surplus of bric-a-brac can guarantee it.

    I could never go in for a theology that utterly denies the real presence, but I’m also a little suspicious on one that insists on it so utterly that to question it in the slightest is to incur the wrath of God.
     
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  2. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Ananias and Sapphira died over a lie they told; they treated a gift to God as nothing more meaningful than an opportunity to puff themselves up in the eyes of others. I think Paul was saying that some may have gotten sick or died for treating the eucharist as nothing more meaningful than a chance to fill their bellies.
     
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  3. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    As an Anglican, I am firmly wedded to understanding the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist as Real Presence. What I don't need to do, and get a bit tired of, is Anglicans who affirm the Real Presence, and then immediately go on to explain why that presence is not actually real.

    A lot of the problem I suspect may be found in the idea that physical reality is somehow more real than spiritual reality.

    Therefore we, before him bending, this great Sacrament revere; types and shadows have their ending, for the newer rite is here; faith, our outward sense befriending, makes our inward vision clear. Glory let us give, and blessing to the Father and the Son, honor, might and praise addressing, while eternal ages run; ever too his love confessing, who from Both with Both is One.

     
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  4. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Paul was probably not referring to receiving the bread and wine unworthily at all. The issue that he refused to commend in the church in Corinth was gluttony and greed, selfishness and contempt for poorer brothers and sisters in the faith. It is highly likely that his warning against eating and drinking without discernment is not prompted by a superstitious belief that anyone can be poisoned or (even less likely), cursed by the body and blood of Christ. Rather that gluttony and consequent obesity can kill you, a statistical and medical fact that modern science has conclusively proven beyond any doubt.

    Those who would casually eat and drink the Agape Eucharist meal, (Communion, as we now know it had not yet been invented, it was an actual meal Paul is referring to that the Corinthians were meeting to consume), those who ate and drank like gluttons probably lived profligate lives and would suffer the consequences of their own profligacy through degeneration of their health, even to an early death.
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    Last edited: Sep 2, 2022
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  5. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Well-Known Member Anglican

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    It is utterly outside the Anglican tradition & correctly so