Thoughts on (infant) baptism from evangelical Anglican perspective

Discussion in 'Sacraments, Sacred Rites, and Holy Orders' started by Lowly Layman, Mar 14, 2015.

  1. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    http://churchsociety.org/blog/entry/baptism_video/

    Here is a video from the Church Society on the meaning of baptism in the Anglican tradition from an evangelical bent. Do you feel this hits the mark? Is baptism a "secondary" issue as he described at the video's beginning?
     
  2. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Hello Lowly. Mr. Gatiss describes himself as a Protestant and I researched his background a bit. He is in the "Reformed and Evangelical" party, so his views have little in common with those of the Fathers or the Church Catholic. If baptism is a "secondary issue," then all bets are off and I would assume he feels the same way about the Holy Eucharist. It is truly depressing to see this type of thought apparently growing in Anglicanism.

    I have had some debates recently on an ACNA forum in which some clergy refuse to use the title "priest" and one went so far as to claim that he goes to his "brother pastor's" Baptist church and takes communion with him. While there are some good Anglo-Catholic dioceses and parishes in the ACNA (I belong to one), the Church is taking in people from every background and even ordaining many of them without any real Anglican catechesis. It's truly frightening.

    P.S. According to his website, he also blogs on a site called "Meet the Puritans." Good grief.
     
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  3. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Since I left the Church of England, a friend of mine, a 'stayer', as it were, invited me to a concelebrated ,'mass,'. Thanking him I refused and was told, not by him, that I was a dinosaur! There were eleven Anglican clergy there and at least one C.S.I., who was a full time Presbyterian minister!
     
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  4. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    And the Evangelicals are frightened of the Anglo-Catholics. And so it goes, and has always gone in Anglicanism.

    God forbid that an Anglican and a Baptist take communion together. My goodness.

    BTW, show me where there is an office or order of "priest" in the New Testament.
     
  5. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    God forbid that there might be Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Mennonites, Quakers, Nazarenes, Pentecostals, and others in the true church, and in heaven, right?
     
  6. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    For those who dread the prospect of high church Anglicanism being polluted and contaminated by other streams of thought and traditions, I would refer you to the examples of the Church of North India and the Church of South India.
     
  7. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    We had a priest from Ceylon, who after some years at our local parish church, returned to Celon and became a bishop in the Continuing Church there!
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
  8. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    By no means, and in no cases!
    :o

    This is not a high-v-low church issue. This is an issue of the divinely revealed word of the Scriptures vs. heretics refusing to take the gospel and God at his word about Baptism and his Body on the basis of misguided ecumenism. And has there ever been a 'well-guided' ecumenism? :dunno:
     
  9. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Oh it's not a 'growing' thing at all, as these cranks have been around since the revivals of the early twentieth century, and peaked in the 1950s. They've been on a recession since then. The modern world is seeking a sacramental and high theology that is at war with the banality of the world, and the 'lowness' of any kind in the Church is a dying breed.


    Priest is not an order in the New Testament. Presbyter is. 'Priest' is what many clergy call the sacrificial aspect of their Office, the other titles being 'pastor' highlighting the clergy's pastoral aspect, or 'minister' to highlight their ministry. All three are equivalent.

    I have seen many evangelical clergy and especially CANA prefer to call themselves, and others, as priests, even more than in the higher church jurisdictions. It is not a low-v-high church issue. All presbyters offer up the sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving of the Church, upon the Altar at the Offertory.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
  10. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I have always understood that those disciples who Our Lord sent out on training exercise, (Luke,) the 70, were the fore runners of the priesthood!
    Neither do I take communion with C.of Ee, folk since 1994! Since the Early Anglican Fathers followed the Rule of faith, Revelation, Scripture and Councils I follow them The Laudian Fathers and cannot quite see any other way to keep the faith, can you?
     
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  11. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Is it simply that you believe there is no difference at all between the Catholic Church, of which the Anglican Church is the localcommunion,( as they used to claim,) and the dissenters?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
  12. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    In his discussion with the Romanist, Fisher S.J. Archbishop Laud was adamant, first in that there was no Salvation outside the Church , secondly ,that entrance to the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church was gained by Baptism and that was why the Anglican Church encouraged Infant Baptism. 'No Washing , No Entrance.' was his comment. (as far as I remember.)

    This book which is out of print, but obtainable from Google Books, is essential reading, for Anglicans and our latitudinarian brothers and sisters. It can be seen quite easily why both the Reformers and the Papists were exasperated and splenetic with the Church in England at that time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
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  13. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    Highchurchman, thank you for the resource. i am a great fan of Laud's works.
     
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  14. Phoenix

    Phoenix Moderator Staff Member Anglican

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    Is there any interest in helping us bring Archbishop Laud's works online?
     
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  15. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    I would love to but cannot begin any new projects until August at the earliest. If you can wait that long, I'd love to participate.
     
  16. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Thank you High Churchman. I just received my copy of Archbishop Laud's Devotions. It is excellent, as I am sure his debate with Fisher is. It still amazes me how some accuse the Caroline Divines of being "Papists" when there works repeatedly critiques the Church of Rome.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1295319578/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
     
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  17. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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  18. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Yes it is, and it is in better condition than mine is! I shall buy one for myself.
    Also a copy of his three speeches from Amazon. >

    I've tried for years to get books or publications by, Laud but failed miserably. It wasn't that there were none, but that everything was in poor condition.
    I've two copies by e-reader but they're hard work to get through, spelling mistakes galore.
    We live in marvellous days when the publications of Anglican Saints are in such profuse quantities.
    I do thank you for your trouble!
    God bless!
    (Even Seagull!)
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
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  19. ChristusResurrexit

    ChristusResurrexit Member

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    Baptism is a beautiful thing that any person, no matter what age, can participate in. Any baptism preformed in the name of the holy Trinity is valid. It is the renewal of a person. It is their entering into the New Covenant, and the New Israel. It washes away sin, both original and personal.
     
  20. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    The difference I see is that the Anglican Communion has always, at least since the time of the Elizabethan Settlement, been able to contain within itself all the diversity that each dissenting group carries within itself individually.