Thoughts on Crucifixes

Discussion in 'Faith, Devotion & Formation' started by bwallac2335, Feb 13, 2022.

  1. Matthew J Taylor

    Matthew J Taylor Member

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    He has a cross upon which the suffering Jesus is painted.
    He would distinguish this from a crucifix upon which a carved/cast model of Jesus is affixed.
     
  2. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    I guess I don't really see the difference except you said he had an Eastern Background and they used icons and not statues.
     
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  3. Matthew J Taylor

    Matthew J Taylor Member

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    I don't consider them to be too different though I would say that a statue is worse.
    He has always been Anglican it's just that he trained in a Greek Orthodox monastery and, when he still worked for the Archbishop of Canterbury, he was the CofE representative to the Syriac Christians.
     
  4. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    In fairness, Anglicans are not by nature iconoclast, but rather see a sense of moderation, all things decently and in good order.

    The rule however should be, if it is not helping stop doing it.
     
  5. Matthew J Taylor

    Matthew J Taylor Member

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    Aye, my harsher iconoclastic tendencies likely owe at least partially to my Presbyterian upbringing.
     
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  6. Clayton

    Clayton Active Member

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    That’s a good rule.

    Why have I not heard it before!?
     
  7. Annie Grace

    Annie Grace Active Member

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    I'm not sure I get the analogy here because things can be used to represent other things, such as bread and wine being used to represent the body and blood of Christ. They aren't the body and blood (as the RCC seems to think) but they do represent that. A wedding ring represents a spiritual bond between two people but it isn't really anything other than a ring. I think people have always used things to represent ideas and feelings and other things.

    As an RC, I did used to participate in kissing the feet of the crucifix, and it represented something to me that was very spiritual. But today I don't engage in as many external acts as I used to, especially since becoming an Anglican - not because anyone told me not to, just because I don't feel the need or desire to do so now. But I can still see how some people might get comfort or a feeling of union with the suffering of Jesus through kissing the crucifix. I just don't think it is any more of a big deal than any other act of devotion. Like Brother Thomas, I don't see any point in focusing on the differences between us as Christians when we could be focusing on the similarities and things that unite us.

    Oh and yes, people do reverently kiss things, not specifically key fobs, unless one were attached to something spiritual like a religious medal I suppose. But even making the sign of the cross is just an act representing something. I guess what I am saying is I don't think it's a very big deal. But I respect that we all have differing opinions.
     
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  8. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Crucifix is not in itself a problem, save for what people do with it. Similarly, the chasuble is just a vestment (and an ancient Roman secular vestment at that). It was associated with the propitiatory Latin mass hence it was seen as problematic, but now that it's not associated with that, people are okay with using it more.
     
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  9. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    About the use of cross or crucifix, in my understanding, our thinking cannot be from a human perspective, but from GOD's perspective. Analyzing deeply the SUBJECT of this topic by the Holy Spirit, I would say that GOD knew His Son would be killed, murdered. Therefore, GOD the Father allowed His Son Jesus to be taken to the slaughter like a sheep.

    Deeply analyzing the SUBJECT of this topic , in fact GOD allowed His Son JESUS to be taken to the slaughter like a sheep, but the way he would be killed was not chosen by God the Father, but by the Devil, the cross was manufactured by the Devil as an object of humiliation, mockery and suffering. Cross, according to the Word of GOD, is CURSE. In fact, the CROSS is a trophy that the Devil uses still to this day to highlight that he had the power to KILL THE MIGHTY SON OF GOD, knowing that JESUS was the Heir of everything, Heir of the Earth, of the world, -Hebrews 1:v.2-3 , by whom also God made the world.

    I am 85 years old, I am a Christian from my mother's womb, my parents were evangelical Christians, members of a traditional Church, I am a disciple of JESUS according to His Holy Gospel, in my understanding, in my conception by the Word of God, by the Scriptures, by the Bible, where there is a CROSS, which is a trophy of the Devil, there is evidently a curse, because cross is CURSE.
     
  10. Br. Thomas

    Br. Thomas Member

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    I do not know how to respond to your comments, other than to say I disagree.
     
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  11. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    This might be the most confused account of the work of Christ I’ve ever read. My suggestion is to unlearn what you know while there’s still time, and then learn it afresh using the old Prayer Book catechism.
     
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  12. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    It is hard to say, but according to the WORD of GOD, not mine, he who hangs a cross on neck is under CURSE, because CROSS is CURSE; or hanging a cross on a wall, that environment is consequently under a curse because cross is a CURSE, says the Word of God, not my own word. The testimony of God is greater-1John 5:v.9- for sure.
    Matthew 25:v.41 - Then shall JESUS say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye CURSED into everlasting fire, (who are these but those who remained and are under the curse of the cross?) prepared for the DEVIL and his MESSENGERS. Who are the messengers of Devil? 2 Corinthians 11:v.13 to 15 reveal:
    13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers (angels of the Devil) transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
    14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
    15 Therefore it is no great thing if HIS MINISTERS (MINISTERS OF DEVIL) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose END shall be according to their works.

    How can Satan be transformed in angel of light? Satan and his messengers work with the Word of GOD, they know the Word of GOD, of course, and the Word is a lamp-Psalm 119:v.105, so Satan can really be transformed in angel of light. The Word is GOD, and GOD is light. JESUS warned: Many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many-Matthew 24:v.5&25 combined with John 5:v.43 to 47.

    I am not condemning anyone, the Word of God is the one who judges, and it clarifies what is right and what is wrong, what is true and what is not true.

    Be careful and get ready
     
  13. CRfromQld

    CRfromQld Moderator Staff Member

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  14. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Superstitious nonsense! In Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham has come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

    all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. Gal.3:10-14.

    The devil has more interest in getting rid of crucifixes so people cannot be reminded of what 'the powers' were fooled into doing, than in cursing walls because someone hangs a cross on them.[/QUOTE]
     
  15. Ananias

    Ananias Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I come from the Baptist tradition, and I feel the same way -- crucifixes do not in any way offend me or outrage my theology, but they do startle me a bit when I see them in church. My local ACNA church uses the unadorned cross in our sanctuary, but the diocesan cathedral displays the crucifix. I have no problem with it either way.

    As to displaying the cross elsewhere, I have plain wooden cross hanging over my bed. This would strike many of my former denomination as odd if not actually idolatrous, but I see no harm in it. It is a signifier of Christ in my life rather than an icon or idol in itself, and as such does not run counter to reformed theology. Displaying a cross in this way is really no different than having a cross stamped on the cover of a bible. I do not worship the book; I worship God whose book this is. It's the same with the cross (or crucifix).

    I have long prayed that the old hostility between the RC, EO, and protestant churches would cool. We need to stand together as much as we can these days as brothers and sisters in Christ. We all face an increasingly-hostile secular culture -- this abortion madness right now is only a foretaste of what's coming. We may disagree with each other, even profoundly, without battling amongst ourselves while the pagans gather at the gates.

    I'm not much of a fan of ecumenism as it's been practiced over the years as I think it ends up damaging theology at the expense of a shallow comity between the denominations. But increasingly I think we need to forge links among all Christians so that we can support each other in the hard times to come. You've seen some of the madness and hostility aimed at the RC church recently, but that hostility is increasingly being brought to bear against all Christians. Just look at the horrible tribulations afflicting our Anglican brothers and sisters in Nigeria -- if you think the same thing can't happen here, you're fooling yourself. I'd love to see a grand Synod that re-affirms the Nicene Creed (and settles the filioque question). If we could get at least that far, it would give me more hope for the future.
     
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  16. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    The last thing we need is more discussion of the filioque. To paraphrase Jaroslav Pelikan, there is a special place in hell where the punishment is to read the endless ink that has been spilled on that subject.
     
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  17. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    TRUE.
    It is what the everlasting Word of GOD says. The Word is GOD, do you understand?


    What you said really is a Superstitious nonsense! Worst, you are believing in LIE created by people guided by the spirit of lie, the old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, and usually passes from generation to generation. See, JESUS is the Son of GOD, but the CURSED CROSS made by the Devil to kill JESUS is a CURSED Devil's trophy that belongs to him. The CURSED CROSS is of him.

    In my prior post I tried to clarify that where there is a CROSS , there there is a CURSE, all temples of the Roman Catholic Church has many crosses in and out and all of the temples, starting by the Church of St. Peter in Rome, are under CURSE because the CURSED CROSS of the Devil is placed upon them all.

    By the way, the earth was as the Garden of GOD before the sin, but after sin entered the world, GOD changed the environment in the Earth because He CURSED the Earth, and CURSED also the Devil, a former Cherub, and the Earth is still under CURSE together with the Devil which deceives the whole world, but now he will be cast down into the bottomless pit-Revelation 20v.1-3.


    Then shall JESUS say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye CURSED, into everlasting FIRE, prepared for the Devil and his messengers-Matthew 25:v.41 combined with 2 Corinthians 11:v.13 to 15. Check it.


    Be careful and get ready

    Post Script
    The former Church of the Lord in Rome, developed by the Apostle Paul, author of epistle of Romans, apostatized terribly, and turned the birth place, the cradle, of Antichrist -1John 2:v.18-19 is a a good clue. The Antichrist was born from the church - see how | Friends Of Jesus (proboards.com)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2022
  18. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    Using all-caps doesn’t make this any less nonsensical.
     
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  19. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Where did you learn your theology, Hollywood and Hammer Horror Films? :tvhappy: :torch:

    He that is in us is greater than the one that is in the world. Your notion of the devil seems to think him too powerful to cringe at the image of the cross. Where is your faith?

    I guess "The Old Rugged Cross" is not your favourite hymn then. Would you have it 'Marcionised' and redacted out of all Christian hymn books? "Lift High the Cross" not in your church's book either I guess. And as for "Surveying the Wondrous Cross on which the Prince of Glory Died" your survey is yet to take place, so nothing learned there then. :hmm:
    .
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2022
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  20. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    Friend, what prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, do you understand? The testimony of GOD is greater, your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God's perspective.