"The End Of Roman Catholicism" -article by an RCC traditionalist

Discussion in 'Non-Anglican Discussion' started by Stalwart, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    It's the famous article re-printed in the Italian press in May of 2018 by a famous traditionalist Roman Catholic intellectual (Sandro Magister). The title speaks for itself:

    "The End of Roman Catholicism"
    http://magister.blogautore.espresso...s-reform-was-written-before-by-martin-luther/

    It begins as follows: "At this point in the pontificate of Francis, I believe it can be reasonably maintained that this marks the twilight of that imposing historical reality which can be defined as “Roman Catholicism.”

    This does not mean, properly understood, that the Catholic Church is coming to an end, but that what is fading is the way in which it has historically structured and represented itself in recent centuries."



    Thoughts?
     
  2. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    It reminds me of that other question I keep asking, 'would Martin Luther have been at odds with a Vatican II Church and Pope?'
     
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  3. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Not sure about the validity of such observations. Can we say that the Roman Catholic Church of the 4th century was the same as the RCC of the 12th? The point I am making is that the RCC (as with any church) has been, and will be, changing over time. That is natural and to be expected. I don't personally believe that what has transpired under Francis comes anywhere close to the changes that occurred at the time of Vatican II.

    Most (not all) of the changes I have seen in the RCC over the past century have been for the better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  4. Brigid

    Brigid Member

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    The changes I would need to see to alter it back to the 4th century church is the belief in papal supremacy and infallibility, infallibility of the ordinary magisterium, works justification and many canon laws.
     
  5. Shane R

    Shane R Active Member

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    Many pine for the days of Benedict. And yet, he had appointed about 1/2 of the cardinal electors that gave the world Francis. What does that say about the Roman system?

    The attached article was a bit vitriolic. One would think Francis was on the verge of uniting with the Porvoo Communion after reading that. Sure, Francis is a dope who was brought up on liberation theology and can't really connect with the European church. But that fact limits his influence. He might even essentially hand-pick his successor since he has appointed nearly 60% of the sitting cardinal electors. But the Roman church changes at a pace only slightly less glacial than the various Orthodox churches. Witness the rise of Ad Orientem celebration despite Francis' wishes.
     
  6. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I think that's overstating it. The same Roman church has changed its doctrine on capital punishment, and on communion for divorced and remarried, in just the last 2 years.

    Benedict was and is a modernist, even if slightly less. He has endorsed the modernist understanding of the Scriptures and the Resurrection in 2008 Synod of Bishops, paving the road for denying the literal veracity thereof in the future Roman developments -- such as, in 2016 denying Jesus' literal words that "what God has put together let no man put asunder", and in 2017 denying the literal text of Scripture that "he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword".

    That's just a North American phenomenon, fueled by exiles from the Episcopal Church and liberal Protestant denominations. There is no ad orientem rise in the Netherlands, or Brazil, or the Philippines, or the Congo.

    And even this "rise" is microscopic in dimension, namely one-two bishops have endorsed it.

    And even that Francis can squash like a cockroach any time he wishes.
     
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  7. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Active Member Anglican

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    Most of it, is my guess.
     

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