The Beast Revelation

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Truth, and Ethics' started by michael, Jun 8, 2023.

  1. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Well, I take the futurist interpretive view, as you well know. But we certainly can agree that the suggested interpretation is pretty far out in left field (if not all the way out into the parking lot). :laugh:
     
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  2. michael

    michael New Member

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    When I have to investigate my own work in order to show you an answer which I have already stated, that makes you unworthy. Implied accusations that I am wrong without your even thinking about trying to find out makes you unworthy. I don't appreciate someone who lies in wait to accuse. And you are correct, the case is closed for you. M
     
  3. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Refusal to answer the legitimate questions on the ambiguity of various statements in an original post render debate a fruitless exercise. I think perhaps a refusal to even consider the possibility that there are highly speculative aspects to the article under question indicates that the case is probably closed as far as most of us in here are concerned, actually.
    .
     
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  4. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    When newbies show up with a chip on the shoulder and an air of superiority, do they expect us to sit in awe and gobble everything they serve up? :rolleyes:
     
  5. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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  6. Sandra Phillips

    Sandra Phillips New Member

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  7. Sandra Phillips

    Sandra Phillips New Member

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    There are some issues here that don't seem to be in keeping with scripture.

    If Jesus took back the human life that he sacrificed, mankind would no longer be ransomed.
    Rapture-"But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom, nor does corruption inherit incorruption" 1Cor 15:50
    For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 1 Peter 3:18
    God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth. John 4:24
    He (Jesus) is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. Heb 1:3 As God is spirit then so is Jesus.
    "And the fact that He resurrected him from the dead never again to return to corruption... Acts 13:34
    Jesus will never have a physical body again.
    Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. John 14:19
    Not sure what your 'take' is on the 'rapture' but as shown they could not be taken to heaven in their physical bodies just as Jesus will not have a physical body because his kingdom is a heavenly one.
    When one uses the word 'see' it does not necessarily mean that it is something perceived by the eyes. Jesus returns in the clouds (shrouded) see can also mean to understand or discern or deduce mentally after reflection or from information.
     
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  8. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    What does that have to do with anything? Neither scripture nor I have suggested that Jesus would "take back" his human life. By "take back," do you mean withdraw His humanity from existence? Actually, if Jesus were to abandon His physical body, that would come really close to an abandonment of His humanity. But if, by chance, you mean to suggest that Jesus' taking His physical body with Him to the heavenly realm would somehow negate the accomplished work of His suffering, death, and resurrection, I fail to see how that is at all possible; what He has done, He has done, and nothing can ever undo it.

    The cited scriptures do not state that "Jesus will never have a physical body again." I think it is quite a stretch to force that idea out of those verses. Jesus had a physical body after the resurrection, which He invited the disciples to touch and inspect. He ascended physically into the sky, and we are told that He will return in the same manner as His departure, which implies that He will return to earth in physical form out of the sky. We are also told that we will be make like Him. 1 Cor. 15:42 says, "Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever." Clearly, our physical bodies will be raised and transformed to incorruptibility. When we read further along in v. 50, "our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever," it's saying our current, corruptible forms cannot do so, but it's not saying that no physical form can do so. We must interpret v. 50 in light of, and as a supplement to, what was previously told us in v. 42. Also consider what v. 44 states: we will be raised as spiritual bodies, not as incorporeal spirits. See the difference? A disembodied spirit is not the same thing as a spirit inhabiting a spiritual body. A "spiritual body" in this sense is meant to convey the concept of a changed body, an immortal body of flesh and bone similar to that of our Lord Jesus. Just as Jesus' resurrection body is not subject to decay but can last forever, so will our bodies be remade.

    By the way, the idea that Jesus did not physically rise from the dead is a very old heresy. And the idea that God the Son was somehow incapable of retaining His physicality when He went into the spirit realm called "heaven" is not believable.

    I do not think that the raptured faithful will go to the non-physical realm commonly referred to as "heaven;" instead, upon meeting Jesus in the air, He will lead the raptured faithful to the earth's surface where we will accompany Him and serve Him in govering the remaining mortal humans during His ensuing thousand-year reign. This will be the time when the unfulfilled prophecies concerning the Israelites (of which there are many) will finally be completely fulfilled.

    Theoretically, yes. But when we are told in Acts 1, "This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven," and when we know that they saw Jesus go with their own physical eyes, we can also be confident that He will be seen with physical eyes when he comes back.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2023
  9. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Christ has become a life giving spirit. Whatever kind of body Christ now has, is a spiritual body, not a mortal one. We also will have 'spiritual bodies' just as he now has.

    If by the word 'physical' we are imagining a body similar to ours in physicality, we will be very much mistaken, because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. The way Christ went to his Father was through death. That involves 'change'. This 'change' applies to everyone if it applied to Christ, because HE is the prototype, the firstborn of the dead. We all must die in the flesh, if we are to be reborn in spirit, as Christ now is.
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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2023
  10. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I disagree (mainly my opinion, of course). Flesh and blood cannot, it is true, but Jesus when raised from the dead had a physical body. It was not corruptible material, yet it was of significant materiality. I do not think we will be incorporeal, nor do I think Jesus is necessarily incorporeal.

    Of course, I will be glad to be there with Him no matter what form (or lack thereof) we have! :yes:
     
  11. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with your disagreeing. Having a 'spiritual' body does not necessarily mean Christ's risen body was immaterial. It is materiality which is an illusion, not the spirit that created it.

    What we consider to be material is actually only a form of energy anyway. Matter is mostly emptiness surrounded by energetically orbiting electrons. God is Spirit, and Jesus is God, therefore Jesus is now Spirit and scripture actually says so.
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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2023
  12. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    It’s not at all clear to me what this means. Let’s begin with the axiom that there is no middle category between “physical” and “not-physical.” An existent must be either one or the other. The NT writers are very clear that Jesus’ pre- and post-resurrection body was not only on the physical side of that disjunct, but was numerically the same body, and these twin propositions became critically important in the polemics against Gnosticism over the following century. Whatever “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” means, it cannot be interpreted canonically as denying or contradicting the clear statements in the Gospels regarding the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and it’s not clear to me what didactic purpose is served by obscuring them.
     
  13. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I don't think materiality is an illusion, but it is a construct. And there is nothing preventing God from producing a new, everlasting construct that includes physicality. With that said, I don't think any of us can be dogmatic about the issue; we'll have to wait and see! :cheers:
     
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