TEC NYC Gay Disco Mass

Discussion in 'Anglican and Christian News' started by Celtic1, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    No actually it was you who in our discussion about homosexuality brought up how Jesus 'engaged with criminals'. Why do you hate gay people Ogygopsis?...


    Marriage is an institution of God. It does not change with the ages. Instead of trying to figure out what moderns or ancient Greeks thought about marriage, maybe you should be a little more concerned about what God thinks about marriage.

    Facepalm.

    That concept doesn't exist even now, no matter if 'moderns' try to create it on their own. Try to create a square circle, go ahead try it, be you as 'modern' as you can be, you still won't be able to make one. Just so you cannot make a 'homosexual marriage'. It is not up to you to make. You are living in God's world. He is not a plaything of your linguistics and social customs.
     
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  2. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    Sodomy is declared a sin by both testaments of scripture and continuous tradition on the church catholic. To tell people otherwise is to lie to them and possibly imperil their eternal souls. The church must witness as it has received, no matter what the pc police think.
     
  3. Ogygopsis

    Ogygopsis Active Member

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    Jesus said nothing about same-sex behaviour. The Jewish prophets are silent about homosexuality. Is it 6 or 7 or 8 of the Bible’s one million some verses that refer to same-sex behaviour in any was. None of these verses refer to homosexual orientation as it is understood today. The bible is silent about relationships that don't lead to having kids.

    Back to Romans 1,26-7. An out of context reading has Paul sees women having sex with women and men having sex with men, and he condemns that practice. But is that the context. Nope. If you took a NT class at university, you are being dishonest about it.

    Paul wrote as he toured the Mediterranean. He visited temples of many gods, including Aphrodite, Diana, and fertility gods. Devotees engaged in some wild sex behaviour. They self-castrated, had orgies, had sex with male and female whores. The context is lust. When sex and lust get control of us and dominate, we are in trouble. That's what this is about. Gay people we've had in our parish, and others I have met in our diocese and province haven't given up heterosexual passions for homosexual lusts.They didn't change from one orientation to other. They just discovered that they were homosexual.

    Some have used Paul’s writings to support slavery, segregation, racism. Are you folks also anti-female clergy? Paul's writings have been used to support that too.

    I get what you and some of the others are saying. I was there once myself. I didn't know that such a thing as homosexuality existed until I was in my mid 20s and married. Then I met one; this was during the time when the legality was just changing. It is totally unnatural for me, it never occurred to me. What realized over time is that sexuality is what you're born with. I never knew a time when I wasn't heterosexual, and these folks never knew a time when they weren't homosexual. I will say that if any of you are pastors, you will not be ministering to any gay people. Strident anger like I see posted here may also be why this board is rather quiet.
     
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  4. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Active Member

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    edit - nevermind (please don't read anything into the "nevermind"...i started to post something, then realized that it probably took the conversation too far afield)
     
  5. CatholicAnglican

    CatholicAnglican Active Member

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    For one, Disco was not made by gay men, but started by funky black straight men. And as someone who likes Disco and Italo-Disco this offendeth me much. Do they have to take everything?
     
  6. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    One of my best friends is homosexual. He himself admits that he chose it, that he was not born that way. You are buying into a lie.

    Oh, and strident anger? I don't see that. I see some of us standing for traditional morality and faithfulness to scripture and the Christian faith.
     
  7. Onlooker

    Onlooker Active Member

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    One of my best friends is homosexual. She herself admits she did not choose it, but was born that way. You are buying into the truth.
     
  8. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    She is deluded. There is absolutely no evidence, scriptural or scientific, that anyone is born homosexual. In fact, scripture and science prove just the opposite.
     
  9. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    I am heterosexual. I did not choose it. I was born that way. So I have no choice but to believe someone who tells me that they were born homosexual. If you can choose to be homosexual lets have an experiment: all of you that believe it is a choice will choose to become homosexual for the next 48 hours. You will be romantically and sexually attracted to only those of the same sex. And then come back and tell us your results.
     
  10. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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  11. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    On a very personal level, my daughter has chosen to live as a homosexual. She was not born that way. In fact, she says she can choose either men or women. So, does that mean she was born bisexual? The only way anyone can be bisexual is to be born with both male and female genitalia.
     
  12. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    You actually were not born that way. You aren't following science. Learn the Kinsey scale. People are on a range between the two opposites, and settle down on a choice based on a complex interplay of influences and personal choices. That's why they can actually choose to switch their choice, as science has abundantly recorded.
     
  13. Onlooker

    Onlooker Active Member

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    (1) The Queen is obliged to assent to Bills passed in due form by the two Houses. It is possible to conjure scenarios when she might possibly refuse her assent, but they would have to be constitutionally very extreme: say a Bill to abolish Parliament and establish a dictatorship.
    (2) She acts on the advice of her ministers. She is under no obligation – indeed has no right – to impose the Church of England's views on the secular realm.
    (3) So the answer to your question is "Yes".
     
  14. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    Why is choice material in this discussion? Homosexual behavior, ie men lying with men as with women, is the sin. The temptation to commit that sin is merely that, temptation, until one yields to the temptation, there is no sin. While the homosexual desire may or may not be a choice, the voluntary act is most certainly the result of a free choice and that is the sin.
     
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  15. Spherelink

    Spherelink Active Member

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    Agreed with above^.
     
  16. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Interesting responses. I will respond to each of you when I have the time (hopefully by this weekend). Other responsibilities at the moment.
     
  17. Ogygopsis

    Ogygopsis Active Member

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    This is absolutely false and you are misinformed. Conversion therapy from homo to heterosexual has been thoroughly debunked as ideological and not science based. Here's a link, among the many, from USC-Davis which succinctly provides you with some information about Ken Spitzer's retraction of his study that the conversion therapy advocates had been using. : http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_changing.html If you search more, you will discover that there is extremely limited data to support the idea of conversion therapy. There are extreme ethical problems for using treatments that have no effects as well. If belief strays into science it is correctable. There is no merit in holding on to a belief with a pretence that it is supported by science when it is not.
     
  18. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

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    Then why do you continue to hold to your belief that homosexuals are born that way when it is not only not supported by science but refuted by same? The only homosexual gene ever discovered is "Bishop" Gene Robinson.
     
  19. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Conversion therapy, and nurture-based acquired homo/hetero orientation, are two separate things.
     
  20. Ogygopsis

    Ogygopsis Active Member

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    You're the one who wrote
    How pray tell shall this be done? Also please tell us how you know this, i.e., the study or studies that show actual data about it. I call "false" on your claim "as science has abundantly recorded" unless you can show actual data and science.