Supernatural

Discussion in 'Non-Anglican Discussion' started by CFLawrence, Sep 23, 2020.

  1. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

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    So I’m going to confession with an RC Priest this morning, going back to Rome. It all started when I realised my TEC priest, whom I love, doesn’t believe any of the miracles in the bible actually happened. This started in a homily, where she quoted the famous apostate priest Crossan. After I realized she read him, I knew we were in trouble. Plus, I’m trying to be a celibate gay man in a church with married gay men. I’m trying to be pro-life in a church of pro-choicers.

    I don’t like the catholics much, but they are orthodox, except for Francis, God help us. But I can find a good parish with a good priest, I have lots of choices. Plus I think the priest who will be hearing my confession this morning is available for some spiritual direction.

    as a spiritual side note I’m going to talk to Father about abstaining from the Eucharist for a period of time so I can do penance. I’ve thought of this in the past but now I’m convinced it’s necessary. I will avail myself of confession/direction monthly and receive a small number of times a year, like Easter, Pentecost and Christmas.

    I’ll probably still pray out of my new 2019 BCP!! I love it! Anyway... no one in my life is affirming my choice, no family, no friends, not my therapist, and all of those people think I should indulge my sodomitical inclinations. So I’m really going counter culture here. If there was a continuing church nearby or an ACNA... but alas.

    anyway, I just needed to share, and yes, I believe Jesus really fed 5000 with 5 loaves a few fish. He actually multiplied the bread!!!!!
     
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  2. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Is that particular TEC parish the only Episcopal or Anglican church within a reasonable distance for you?

    I don't like the sound of that female TEC priest (I almost want to put that word in quotation marks, like she's a pseudo-"priest"!). Hopefully there are other alternatives, short of a RC parish.
     
  3. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    Sorry you feel the need to go back to the RCC since you clearly have misgivings about it. I too am a lonely traditionalist in the TEC and while I recognize that there are reasons to be unhappy with the current state of TEC, many of which I have discussed on these forums as I struggled with them, I do not believe any of them justify leaving. And I would urge you to stay if you still have even a modicum of desire to.

    Here is an excerpt from a piece on the Covenant by an orthodox Episcopalian priest explaining why he remains a part of TEC:

    "The rationale for leaving TEC cannot be that the church is broken. It is broken everywhere and there is no unbroken church to which to flee. The Episcopal Church may yet descend from the practice of using orthodox words to conceal heterodox meanings, and enter into more grossly explicit apostasy and idolatry. It may yet make the faithful preaching of the gospel and the administration of the gospel sacraments impossible. That has not happened yet. While it is yet possible to preach the gospel and administer the sacraments faithfully, I am not free to leave and give over my place as a shepherd to a wolf. I do not deny that, under God, others may have a different calling in these difficult times. Those with pastoral responsibilities should not, as Reepicheep the martial mouse of Narnia reminds us, please themselves as though they were private persons." ( The Very Rev'd Dr. Leander S. Harding, "Why Stay in the Episcopal Church")​

    Father Harding's words make 2 valuable points that I'd like to share with you as you consider the exit door. First, that the Episcopal Church is not perfect needs no elaboration, but what is worth remembering is that the Roman Church isn't perfect either, for all the pretending that it is. TEC is in crises and decline. So is the RCC. TEC has bad priests. So does the RCC. TEC has, in many places, subordinated sound doctrine to post-modern cultural relativism. So has the RCC. TEC has compromised its prophetic office by falling into the political correctness fallacy. So has the RCC. The difference is that TEC (and all Anglican churches) recognizes its own fallibility and that the need for reform is ever present (See Article XIX). The RCC does not. And for that reason, the same errors that necessitated the Reformation remain a part of the RCC, and likely always will. At least TEC provides room to discuss its errors and seek repentance.

    Second, when a good priest leaves TEC, he does not leave an empty spot behind him. He leaves a spot that will be filled by another priest who may or may not be a good priest. The same is often true for TEC members as well. Look it, I am not a psychic. I can't guarantee that the TEC will return to the orthodoxy of its past. But if all orthodox members leave, I can guarantee that any chance for TEC's revival leaves with it. Is that what you want for TEC? For your brothers and sisters who share the pews with you? For the children in TEC Sunday school? Your staying and being the loyal opposition is an act of charity for them as much as it is a sacrifice for yourself. If TEC is in decline, your leaving only makes it worse. As bad as it may be right now, there is enormous opportunity to right the ship. Because as the numbers fall, the impact of the voices of those who stay becomes more powerful. St Francis didn't cut and run when he saw a church in decay. He headed God's call to rebuild. Perhaps we should follow his example.

    I don't know what path is best for you, my friend. Only you can know that. It may be that your chapter as an Episcopalian has closed. In which case, I wish you well. But it could be that there is more of your story left to write. God led you to TEC, at least for a time, for a reason. Do you think you've gotten all He has for you in this experience? At any rate, I leave you with this final thought: You can be as Catholic as you want to be in the TEC, but you will never be allowed to be as Anglican as you want to be in the RCC. I'll stick with the TEC.
     
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  4. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    I would stay away from the TEC. How far are you from an Continuing or ACNA church?
     
  5. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

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    So I had my morning confession. It was a nice welcome home. I told Father I wanted to abstain from the Eucharist for a time period to do penance. He wasn’t thrilled with idea but he conceded there is historical precedent for it. I’ve decided to take a year to do penance and during that year I’ll receive on Christmas, Easter and Pentecost. He made it clear that my private prayer life would have to be especially deep and pointed me toward the practice of the presence of god. I’ve read Brother Lawrence’s book once it’s quite brief and I’m going to go thru it again. In truth I’ve been immersed in studying The Cloud of Unknowing spending much time in contemplation. The Cloud author stresses ascesis prior to taking up his prayer method and recommends beginning with confession, so here we are!

    For my daily office I will continue using my 2019 BCP. It’s the best office book I’ve ever owned. I actually am using the app. Just fantastic. Well, at least I know where my priest and church stand on all the issues. I have a sense of security now. Amen! And I know where all you guys stand, I love this forum...
     
  6. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    We hope you keep coming back to this forum and letting us know how you are doing
     
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  7. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

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    I’ll absolutely be coming back here! The Catholic forums are cray cray! Seriously! Plus I want to incorporate as much of Anglicanism into my faith life as possible so I want to remain here to be fed spiritually!
     
  8. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Sad to hear. Just keep searching, as there's bound to be a historic and liturgical church nearby, even if you don't have an ACNA parish nearby, so I'd suggest you keep looking. If you get too embedded in the RC parish, you'll start imbibing their koolaid and believing their propaganda. In reality, most serious, conservative RCs are actually in a crisis of faith, dabbling with losing their faith altogether (because the Papacy has been shown to be wrong):
    https://onepeterfive.com/no-more-pl...ake-a-hard-look-at-the-crisis-of-catholicism/

    As for the Episcopal parish, of course I don't blame you for being disenchanted by the false gospel and the woman priestess. It brings to mind a recent meme posted by @Lowly Layman:

    20200918_232402.jpg
     
  9. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    How are they crazy? Have you looked into Orthodoxy?
     
  10. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

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    The Eastern Orthodox have as many problems as the rest of us, they just hide them better under a cloak of ethno-phyletism.
     
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  11. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    They do but I like them better than Rome and if he can't find a good Anglican Parish that would be my next place to turn
     
  12. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

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    We used to have a continuing mission. It was the Priest, his wife, and me. Didn’t last long, but it was orthodox! I live in the middle of nowhere! I’m afraid I’m going to have to bite the bullet and do the Roman thing, make the best of it. I’m very pleased with the parish Priest, he seems very sound, like he’ll make an excellent confessor and spiritual director. That’s what I’m most concerned with. And the liturgy is dignified. So I really appreciate all your posts. @Stalwart that meme was hysterical. But that’s another thing! I wanted out before the next PB revision! Lord knows what they want to do the the prayer book this time around. I’m so grateful I bought my copies of the 2019 BCP and ESV with Apocrypha. I bought the pew edition but when I have the cash I’m getting the deluxe. Saying MP and EP is just a joy. The psalter is gorgeous. The re-worked litany is one of my favourite aspects of the PB, especially since I say the litany three times a week. Anyway, rather than blather on, I’ll stop here. Does anyone have any suggestions of specifically Anglican things I should try and keep in my faith life? Specific practices the separate us from Rome? I’m doing a year of penance... it’s. a big deal for me and I’m still looking to see what practices I want to take on. Any suggestions?
     
  13. JonahAF

    JonahAF Moderator Staff Member Typist Anglican

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  14. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    If by "penance" you mean a period of repenting of past sins and of personal denial as a sort of 'fasting,' then fine. Although I personally think that a whole year might be an overly long time to keep thinking about (and perhaps beating oneself up :wallbash: over) past mistakes, :halo: it's between you and God as to what's best for you spiritually. I do hope, however, that you won't think of the penance as a way to work your way back into God's good graces or to make atonement for those old sins, because that type of penance is unscriptural :no: and doesn't work.

    Blessings, brother.
     
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  15. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

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    @Rexlion I promise you I’m not spending a year wallowing in guilt and shame. It’s just a period of intense prayer and fasting. But it’s not being weaponised against me.
     
  16. Dave Kemp

    Dave Kemp Member Anglican

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    @Lowly Layman What a lovely reply. I see my church, the CofE going down the TEC route, breaks my heart, since I moved west across the Atlantic I have joined the ACNA. I worship at a small mission in Illinois, apart from me and my wife the others in our congregation are all exclusively ex TEC, including our vicar.

    I am pleased to hear that there are still faithful orthodox Christians in the episcopal church. God bless.
     
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  17. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

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    @Stalwart That article from 1P5 is very very disconcerting. If I don’t do Roman or TEC what are some orthodox Calvinist denominations I could possibly choose from?
     
  18. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I would look at the Lutherans nearby. WELS or LCMS. They’re good people, and solid theologically and liturgically.
     
  19. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    I am no fan of Calvanists so I would say stay clear of them. Maybe an orthodox Methodist Church?
     
  20. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

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    I’m beginning to think I live in the land of liberals! I can’t find anything suitable other than Roman Catholic. I’m gonna search Orthodox next.
     
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