Predestanation and Free Will

Discussion in 'Theology and Doctrine' started by Joshua Allen Dotson, May 25, 2014.

  1. Joshua Allen Dotson

    Joshua Allen Dotson New Member

    Posts:
    14
    Likes Received:
    11
    Country:
    United States of America
    Religion:
    Christianity
    I was wondering how most of you Anglicans interpret these topics. Calvinist or what? I know many Anglicans fall in differently at different theologies. Ho about you all?
     
  2. seagull

    seagull Active Member

    Posts:
    536
    Likes Received:
    88
    Country:
    England
    Religion:
    Anglican
    I don't think many Anglicans accept predestination now, just as we no longer accept creationism. But I can only speak for the CofE and to some extent the Church of Ireland and the Anglican Church of Australia.
     
  3. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    725
    Likes Received:
    681
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    High-Church Laudian
    I have met Anglicans/Episcopalians here in the U.S. who are staunch Calvinists, as well as Arminians, and those who hold to more Catholic and Orthodox views on the subject. Personally, I lean towards a mixture of the Orthodox and Arminian views which, I believe are compatible. There seem to be quite a few Calvinists (they like to call themselves "Reformed") in the ACNA, my Church, but Arminians and Anglo-Catholics as well.
     
  4. Spherelink

    Spherelink Active Member

    Posts:
    545
    Likes Received:
    241
    Religion:
    Unhinged SC Anglican
    I tend on the Augustinian rather than the Arminian predestination side, although I don't believe Calvin or the moderns adequately plug into the patristic perspective.

    By and large this seems more of an esoteric than practical debate as in effect both sides practice and live in the same way.
     
  5. The Hackney Hub

    The Hackney Hub Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    580
    Likes Received:
    409
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    The Episcopal Church
    My position is the same as found in Article 17, Calvinistic and Reformed.
     
  6. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1,602
    Country:
    America
    Religion:
    Anglican
    Mine is the same as in Article 17, non-Calvinist, and reformed Catholic.
     
    Lowly Layman and Peteprint like this.
  7. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    725
    Likes Received:
    681
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    High-Church Laudian
    That is how I describe myself now Stalwart: Reformed Catholic. :)
     
    Lowly Layman likes this.
  8. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

    Posts:
    169
    Likes Received:
    56
    Religion:
    Anglican
    From coming from catholicism I always never felt comfortable with calvin or luther free will. I was always taught to read the bible with the word "and" in mind.
    I believe in predestination and free will. There both in the bible.
    God himself has since before the Ages known and planned on the vehicle of man's salvation. He has carried out the whole salvation of the race of man through his son Jesus Christ. It is man response to this that decides his relationship to God. It is God's unending yes and man shrugged shoulders as a response.
    Were are all drowning an in ocean. Some tosses us a life line. It is up to us to grasp that life line and be saved. It is also up to us to ignore it. Or to let go of it and fall back into the ocean to drown.
    God in his foreknowledge knows that some will not be saved. He knows who will reject him and who will come to him.
     
  9. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    725
    Likes Received:
    681
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    High-Church Laudian
    Adrian,

    Thank you for sharing your position on this all-to-often devise issue. I have come to realize (at least it works for me), that whether Augustine/Calvin/Arminius/ the Catholic/the Orthodox position is the correct one, it really has no bearing on living a Christian life or on preaching the Gospel. It really doesn't. I fail to understand why some people consider holding to the "correct view" in the matter is so important (and I have met many for whom this seems the most important thing in the world). Understanding the mechanism used by God in our salvation has no effect on the salvation process itself for us as individuals.
     
  10. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

    Posts:
    169
    Likes Received:
    56
    Religion:
    Anglican
    One of my dear friends i met on my way out was a very traditional old school lutheran. I love him dearly now. I thought of joining his church, and to be honest this question was the stumbling block. The idea of a limited free will to me is just something I could not embrace. When i read scripture I see man acting on free will, and sadly using the free will to reject God. So to cut away our free will for so many people in the bible just seems like an excuse and takes away the guilt at their hands. Judas is a prime example of this, but also Peter and Paul both rejected Christ at some point. They used their free will than and also used it to repent. I think that is my issue with a lot of Lutheran and Calvinism is I am a strong believer in free will.
    I do not mean to start any arguments, this was something I learned about myself from the bible and talking in depth with a lutheran pastor.
     
    Peteprint likes this.
  11. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    725
    Likes Received:
    681
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    High-Church Laudian
    I am a staunch believer in free will also Adrian, and when I was in the Orthodox Church that was never an issue. Since becoming Anglican, I have run up against hardcore Calvinists who preach monergism as if it is part of the Gospel (I guess they see it that way) and I have come to the conclusion it is better not to argue with them. It has no effect on my trying to live a Christian life or share the Gospel, and if they want to be obsessed about it, that's fine.

    I can't honestly imagine that a Calvinist, when preaching the Gospel to a friend or coworker, is going to say at the same time, "by the way, you might not be one of the elect."
     
    Rev2104 likes this.
  12. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,995
    ...And mine is the same as in Article 17, Universalist, and reformed Catholic
     
    Rev2104 likes this.