Old Catholic

Discussion in 'Non-Anglican Discussion' started by Jeffg, Aug 12, 2019 at 5:42 PM.

  1. Jeffg

    Jeffg Member

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    So I have visited an Old Catholic Church for Sunday Services the last two Sundays in a row, and have to admit , I really liked the liturgy. I'm guessing it's pre-Vactican. Any thoughts, feelings, insights on the Old Catholics ?
     
  2. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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  3. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

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    In the US and Canada there is the Union of Scranton/Polish National Catholic Church and then there are a bunch of independent groups, most of which are frankly not reputable and often rather cultish. At the fringes of the Continuing movement there exists a certain set of clergy which are always transitioning jurisdictions. For this group, there exists little boundary between Anglican and Old Catholic and you will find some of them flopping back and forth. Often they'll be an Old Catholic bishop but on the occasions that they feel the need to be Anglican they'll accept a demotion to priest for a while.

    To demonstrate how far out of the bounds of believability these guys can take themselves I submit "Count Don Rutherford Cardinal Johnson". At one point this character was running a fried chicken joint in Alabama. Now he has moved on to trouble the good people of Minnesota. He also makes some dubious claims to having served in the US Coast Guard and occasionally appears in a dinner dress uniform which smacks of 'stolen valor' to anyone who has actually served in the Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Jeffg

    Jeffg Member

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    Sounds about right. The church I went to had been kind of an independent Anglican one for years, since 1972 under a couple of appearantly now defunct episcopal jurisdictions. They had been using the 1928 BCP. About 15 or so years ago from what I can tell, they went to the Old Catholic Church of British Columbia for Episcopal over sight, but were still using the 1928 BCP. Only recenlty, upon the retirement of one the senior clergy did they change their name from "Anglican" to "Old Catholic" and started using the Old Catholic liturgy. But , at the same time, I still like the Old Catholic Liturgy
     
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  5. Religious Fanatic

    Religious Fanatic Active Member

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    Old Catholicism is like Orthodoxy in being a spectrum of early Catholic beliefs with no clearly defined catechism, and like Episcopalians with their excessive liberalism. In the English-speaking world, such as the US, Canada, UK, etc., if you want a heretical church you go to the Episcopal. In the rest of Europe, the Netherlands, and Scandinavia, if you want a heretic church you join the Old Catholic Church, since there are more of them in those locales. The Old Catholic Church has nothing to commend it. The only branch I know of to even be fairly conservative is the Polish one. We have about three or four Old Catholic Churches in my city. I was surprised we even have one. We have more than even traditional Anglican churches, of which we only have two very small ones.

    I know Sinead O'Connor was ordained into the OCC. She is a new age feminist and teaches this in her 'ministry'.

    What is even more startling is the fact that the Old Catholics still have some valid communion within the RCC, though like Orthodoxy, it is not a complete one. In contrast, the Anglican church's communion with the RCC is pretty much fractured, even though there are more traditional churches within the body than the OCC. Go figure.
     
  6. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

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    The Polish National Catholic Church is the dominant member of the Union of Scranton. However, the Union of Scranton does have a European presence in the form of the Nordic Catholic Church which primarily soaked up the remnants of conservative Scandinavian Lutheranism and a few FiF parishes.
     
  7. Spiritus

    Spiritus New Member

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    The RCC is not in any formal communion with the Old Catholics. Before the OCC started ordaining women the RCC stated that they recognized the Old Catholics as having a valid priesthood and sacraments. That position has since been revised to; they retain a valid line of Apostolic Succession but their Holy Orders are now in question.

    The Polish Nation Catholic Church is however in "limited inter-communion". So the RCC recognizes their Holy Orders and Sacraments and members of their church can receive sacraments from RCC clergy. Roman Catholics can also receive the Eucharist, confession and anointing of the sick from PNCC clergy if they don't have access to a Catholic priest.
     
  8. Jeffg

    Jeffg Member

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    Looked at the web sight for the Union of Scranton, between Polish Catholic Church and Nordic Church. Interesting. They did a convocation of some sort with Anglican church's such as ACiA, ANCA, Diocese of All Saints, Diocese of the Holy Cross, Anglican Province of America, etc. Looks like they are exploring long term relationships with Anglican church's over issues which have split Anglican. See: http://theunionofscranton.org/2019-convocation/
    Very interesting. Getting the impression that some groups are seeking to re-unify the more conservative/orthodox groups of Anglicans and Old Catholic churchs.
     
  9. Will_

    Will_ Member

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    That makes some sense to me. If one considers the Anglo-Catholic churches that seem to have their doctrine formulated *without* the Thirty-Nine Articles, I could see them already being virtually "Old Catholic". I get the idea that those who would like to fix their doctrine and practice in 1548 would fit in very well with the Old Catholics.
     

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