Newbie from the North of England

Discussion in 'New Members' started by Juliana, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. Juliana

    Juliana Member Anglican

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    Hello everyone

    We joined the local Anglican church about 18 months ago, after wandering around many denominations, from Methodism to Independent Evangelicals. All the time the services became less and less traditional and finally we felt enough was enough. We now enjoy the reverend and quiet Communion services in our local parish churches, but also visit Anglo-Catholic services from time to time.
    Strangely enough, one of the greatest difference has been the number of readings from Scripture in the service. In some evangelical churches one is lucky to get a few verses as an introduction to the sermon.
    Anyhow, I look forward to finding out many things I do not know!
     
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  2. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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  3. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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    All to often, especially in evangelical churches, after some hymns and a prayer or two, it is time for the minister to mount his soap box for the lion's share of the service, pontificating on whatever subject has taken his fancy recently. He thinks his primary task is not to lead worship, or administer the sacraments, but to "educate" his flock, i.e. tell them what he thinks on this subject or that.
     
  4. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    Welcome from down under.

    You remind me of a question I have been asking lately: Why do we read the Gospel at Mass?

    The answer is the same as the answer to the question about receiving the sacrament.

    It is the opportunity to the encounter Jesus.
     
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  5. Juliana

    Juliana Member Anglican

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    Encountering Jesus in the Word and the Sacrament every week has certainly been a revelation to me.
     
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  6. Jeffg

    Jeffg Active Member

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    The readings has me confused sometimes also. I was brought up mostly Lutheran, but my Mothers family was Episcopal (I'm Lutherpalian) and half the family attended the Episcopal Church. I noticed a few years ago that often in an Epicopal services, there would only be two readings from the Bible, where in the Lutheran church's I've attended there have been : Old Testament, Epistle, Psalm, and Gospel. I've kind of wondered why the Episcopal Church skipped either the Old Testament or Epistle reading, but have never asked anybody.
    I've always loved the Word and Sacrament approach.
     
  7. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    The pattern of readings depends in part of what type of service you attend and also on the lectionary being used.

    Morning and Evening prayer services in the Anglican Tradition with usually have an OT and NT reading a couple of Psalms or (Psalm portions), and a couple of canticles which will also be essentially biblical (Venite, TeDeum, Magnificat, Nunc Dimittis ....)

    The Eucharist (Communion) if using BCP or a BCP style lectionary will include Epistle and Gospel, or in the modern rites and some variant of the three year cycle, OT Psalm, NT and Gospel.

    From what you describe, I think that the Lutheran Churches are using a three year Cycle, (quite possibly based of the Revised Common Lectionary) and the Anglican a BCP style lectionary. Hopefully that gives you enough information to ask the questions to get to the bottom of your question.

    Historical Note: I think the expectation was that those who came to Holy Communion would have been to MP and were coming to EP, so they would have had the exposure to the OT in the office, and the communion was more focussed on the Gospel.
     
  8. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Ironic really that the average Anglo Catholic often hears more actual scripture during services of worship than the average evangelical. What's more it is not 'spoon fed', just relevant.
     
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  9. Juliana

    Juliana Member Anglican

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    Yes, it is ironic. The other perhaps ironic fact is (in my case anyway), that I find it much easier to worship God, partly because of the liturgy with its Bible based words. I often felt that evangelical services without any liturgy were more 'man-centered', if that makes sense.
     
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  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Both forms of worship are possible to become cults of personality though. We congregations should try to avoid our leaders being tempted into becoming 'personalities'. That is what vestments try to do. Make the individual part of the furniture rather than a focus of adulation. Sadly though, it can still happen. 1 Corinthians 1 & 2 is a warning against such mistakes.
     
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  11. Jeffg

    Jeffg Active Member

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    I've been to Episcopal Eucherist services where they use only two readings for the Eucherist .So somebody is using a short cut. I am familiar with the lectionary used for Morning and Evening Prayer, having attended both services. I actually like both services and have attended them in both the Lutheran and Episcopal church , as well as Vespers and Compline, which are great.
     
  12. Taiping

    Taiping New Member Anglican

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    Odd. The congregation that I'm a member of in Southeast Asia is low church. I go for the liturgical service and they have FOUR scripture readings in all their Sunday services including Evensong - Old Testament, Psalm, Epistle and Gospel.
     
  13. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    In my ACNA parish (which falls into the 'low church' group, I guess), we have the OT reading, then the congregation recites a portion of a psalm responsively, then the NT reading, then either the rector or deacon walks into the aisle between the congregants to read the gospel.

    Anglicans, it seems to me, hold pretty fast to an essential core of beliefs but allow considerable latitude on non-essentials.
     
  14. Fr. Brench

    Fr. Brench Active Member Anglican

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    Well keep in mind that the traditional Communion lectionary was just two readings (a usually-Epistle and a Gospel), so if you found a 1928-prayer-book-using Episcopalian church then there ya go. The modern upgrade to three (OT, Epistle, Gospel) is much more common though.
    (Slightly off topic, but slight peeve of mine: in the modern lectionary tradition the Psalm is not a reading, it's a prayer, a response to the first reading, like the Canticles in the Office.)

    Whichever line of Anglican tradition, old or new, though, it's definitely a healthier does of Scripture than most nonliturgical churches! I was 'spoiled' growing up at my congregational church which always had three readings before the sermon, too, and horrified to find out that barely-even-one was the norm in the non-denominational world.
     
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  15. PDL

    PDL Active Member Anglican

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    Welcome to the Church of England from another Northerner.

    I do hope you like the liturgy and faith at an Anglo-Catholic church. I wonder how you find the ceremonial after the churches you mentioned you have previously attended. It is worth exploring each one because they all have a specific purpose. Ultimately they are all part of the worship of God.
     
  16. Juliana

    Juliana Member Anglican

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    Thank you for your welcome! Until a year ago I had never been to an Anglo-Catholic service. Over the years I had been to evensong in Cathedrals but no more. When we finally joined out local Anglican churches, I found the liturgical Communion services so 'soothing' and very spiritually inspiring. Because one of our churches was built as an Anglo-Catholic church, we went there as part of the monthly 'tour' (churches have once a month communion service, so we do the rounds).
    But nothing spoke to me as much as the Corpus Christi High Mass last year in that small Anglo-Catholic church. I felt as if it was a foretaste of heaven!
    Since then we have often been to an Anglo Catholic church where our son is altar server, and I can honestly say that I feel most at home in this type of service. The ceremonial, the candles, the incense, the decorations in the church all help to make a service truly uplifting.
    I love the way that each part of the ceremonial has a purpose, and all together they most definitely help one to worship God.
     
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  17. PDL

    PDL Active Member Anglican

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    I am glad that you feel so happy in the Anglo-Catholic branch of the Church of England. It sounds to me like you live in a rural area and I know in such places there is often one priest for any number of parishes and that the main Sunday service can be in different churches and respects the tradition of that particular church.

    We live in the North West and not in a rural area. We did live within a very traditional Anglo-Catholic parish but when our priest retired the bishop swooped in and closed the parish. So, my wife and I travel a little on Sundays to go to an Anglo-Catholic parish but I am afraid the quality of the liturgy is not the same. It seems the parish, as many Anglo-Catholic parishes unfortunately do, slavishly follows what the Roman Catholics do, but seemingly with the indifference of the post-Vatican II 1970s. They seem to have missed out on the fact many Roman Catholic churches are re-discovering their traditions.
     
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  18. Juliana

    Juliana Member Anglican

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    Yes, we do live in rural area. The Anglo-Catholic church near us does not usually have Anglo-Catholic services, except for the 6 candles and the altar up against the wall, so the Eucharistis prayers are said towards the East (which I much prefer to a 'table' with the priest behind it facing the congregation throughout). The liturgy is normally the same as in the other churches around us.
    But if you are ever in the neighbourhood of Worcester, do go and visit St. Leonards, a fully functioning Anglo-Catholic church. It is a delight to be there.
    https://www.beauchampstleonard.org/
     
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  19. PDL

    PDL Active Member Anglican

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    Thank you for that link, which I have just visited. That looks to be a very beautiful place. It shall have to go on our bucket list.
     
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