new article: "Rome rehabilitates Judas on Holy Thursday", yikes

Discussion in 'Anglican and Christian News' started by anglican74, Apr 6, 2021 at 4:58 PM.

  1. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    ROME REHABILITATES JUDAS ON HOLY THURSDAY

    VATICAN CITY (ChurchMilitant.com) - In a ringing endorsement of the world's best-known traitor, the Vatican's most prestigious publication has dedicated its Maundy Thursday Italian edition to rehabilitating Judas Iscariot through word and art.

    L'Osservatore Romano's cover page features a painting of a naked Jesus by an unnamed artist bending over a dead Judas who has a blood-red loincloth around his waist. The tree on which Judas has hung himself is in the background.

    In the front-page editorial titled "Judas and the Scandal of Mercy," which accompanies the illustration, the newspaper's director Andrea Monda reveals that L'Osservatore Romano decided this year to highlight the "most tragic and unsettling" figure in the New Testament.


    ... yikes!

    930_Jud-7.png
     
  2. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    And why shouldn't they? Don't forget Jesus had been banging on about his forthcoming death. Someone had to do something to make Jesus' words come true. And it was also said to be only a three day death, surely not a big deal in the vast scheme of things.
    Now look at John 13 at the last supper; Jesus tell everyone he will be betrayed and and when asked who he says,

    "Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon." vs 26

    So now that everyone knows it's Judas who will betray Jesus, he is in much the same position as that woman proposed too by her idiot boyfriend in front of 30,000 fans at a sports stadium ,he like her can hardly say no.

    Jesus then says to Judas "That thou doest, do quickly."
    But did Jesus really say "That thou doest, do quickly." :disgust:
    Or did he say "That thou doest, do quickly." ;)

    Jesus had told everyone that Judas would betray him. Judas knew Jesus said he would die and probably felt he had to do something to facilitate this.

    But more importantly if Judas hadn't betrayed Jesus, as Jesus said he would, this would have made Jesus out to be a liar and contradicted Scripture and he would have had the mods on this forum on his case. No wonder he felt pressured to do "the right thing"
     
  3. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    "Woe to him by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born" (Matthew 26:24)

    What's so bad for him, then?... this is Christ's own teaching my friend
     
  4. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Prov.16:4. Judus was 'chosen' by Jesus, just as were the others, they didn't choose him. John 6:70.

    Jesus knew well the necessity of Judas's betrayal in God's scheme of things, and probably also knew the anguish it would cause Judas when he discovered that his misguided action had failed to force Jesus into being the kind of 'Interventionist Messiah' that Judas had hoped Jesus would turn out to be. "What you do, do quickly" might be well translated as "If that's what you are intent on doing, you had better get on with it. I'm not going to stop you. You have never really understood me from the very beginning but you will understand what you have done, and the knowledge of it will drive you to take even your own miserable life out of remorse, shame and self loathing".

    I feel we all need 'Good old Judas, poor old Judas', as the scapegoat for the troubled spirit we all would like to deny is within us. None of us seem to 'know' it is there. Matt.26:22. We would all like to deny it and shift the 'blame' onto 'poor old Judas', so as not to have any possibility of having our own inner desires to see a God of Wrath and Violence coming in Great Power to judge the world, (but of course patting US on the head and rewarding US for being so good, obedient and loyal).

    What we have never wanted is a God who is willing to die a naked criminal's death, rather than summon more than 60,000 Angels to 'Strike God's enemies blind', Gen.19:10-11. Matt.26:53.

    Many 'Christians' are still dissatisfied with the God they have actually got and would prefer a much more 'wrathful' one, so long as his wrath is not focussed on them, being as he would obviously recognise their supposed, inherent righteousness.
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  5. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    We don't know for certain that Jesus was aware of what Judas' eventual role would be at the time when He chose Judas. Maybe He did, but maybe not.

    The "God we have actually got" might me more inclined toward wrath than some suppose. None of us can know for sure.
     
  6. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    So what would you do in Judas's situation? When Jesus tell everyone he will be betrayed and and when asked who he says,

    " it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it." And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to anglican74 .

    Do you anglican74 now think "Woe to him by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for me to have not been born", and not betray Jesus and then make his prophecy false. Or do you then betray him because Jesus has more or less ordered you to do so and then additionally says "That thou doest, do quickly" ie don't muck around get on with it.
     
  7. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was pretty good at judging character and also pretty good at knowing things that we probably wouldn't. Matt.16:18, John 1:43-51.

    Jesus supposedly does not change in character. Heb.13:8. Was he "More inclined to wrath than we supposed" or "Gentle, giving rest to our souls" Matt.11:29. If we have seen him we have seen The Father also apparently, but Jesus Christ, according to all the Gospel writers, was not particulary 'inclined toward wrath'. John 14:7, John 14:9, John 15:24-25.

    The Pharisees, who were guilty of sin, John 15:24, certainly "didn't know, for sure", according to Jesus. :laugh:
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  8. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Jesus publicly stated "I am the good shepherd, and I lay down my life for the sheep". He knew he would have to die and also who would ensure that He would have to face death. Christ's death though was not a suicide, it was an inevitable result of the violently sinful nature of the entire human race metaphorically epitomised in Judas Iscariot, his friend.
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  9. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    To not betray jesus! It's really not that difficult...

    are you suggesting that jesus caused Judas to betray him?.. wow hadn't heard that one before
     
  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Not caused it, but clearly Jesus knew what was in Judas's heart, and did not stand in his way. Luke 6:8, John 2:24-25.

    What was in Judas, is in all of us, if we let it. God gives us all freedom of choice, even to the extent that He gave Judas.
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  11. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    right, and for what Judas did with his choice, he was damned, as the scriptures testify
     
  12. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    According to Jesus he was the only one He lost, yes, but I wonder what happened when Jesus visited the prison Judas was in and got a liberation sermon from Jesus? 1 Pet.3:18-22.

    Do you suppose Judas will have turned down the offer from Jesus, of living in The Spirit, now that Judas's jailor had the keys to death and Hades hanging from his belt? Revelation 1:10-18.
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  13. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    So what would you do in Judas's situation?

    That's fine; but now you have made Jesus into a liar, he said you would betray him. And if you had been Judas you would have made a scriptural contradiction.:o
     
  14. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    If Judas would not betray him, then jesus would not have said it.... As I pointed out above, he didn't cause Judas but merely stated what was the case from GOd's omnipotent point of view, knowing all past and all future without infringing on people's free will
     
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  15. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Nothing is inevitable, but knowing the character of the people involved in the events would have made the final outcome predictable for someone as attuned to the will of God as was Jesus Christ. This is why it was not futile for Him to pray that 'this cup pass from him' Matt.26:39-42, Mark.14:36, Lk.22:42. Were it not for the intransigence of godless, human sin, Christ would never had needed to have suffered crucifixion. but clearly nothing would have changed for the human race without it. 1 Cor.2:7-8.
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