Large array of Anglican jurisdictions in North America: help me understand!

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by Botolph, Aug 14, 2015.

  1. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    As an Anglican from Australia, I am exceptionally confused by what Anglicanism is in North America.

    There is/may be
    • The Episcopal Church of the USA
    • The Anglican Church in North America
    • The Anglican Mission in the Americas
    • The Anglican Province of America
    • The Convocation of Anglicans in North America
    • The Reformed Episcopal Church
    • The Episcopal Missionary Church
    • Anglican Mainstream
    • Anglican Church in America
    • American Anglican Church
    • Anglican Church in America
    • Anglican Church International Communion
    • Anglican Church of the Americas
    • Conservative Anglican Church of North America
    • Evangelical Anglican Church in America
    I am sure I don't have that right. I think there may well be a few more, and maybe some of these are duplicates or simply fringe players. Can someone please explain Anglicanism from an American perspective, because it has become quite clear to me that I do not understand it.
     
  2. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Philip, get ready for a whirl wind.

    http://anglicansonline.org/communion/nic.html

    This link takes you to ALL the Anglican Churches, groups etc world wide. I think about 50 are in the States alone.

    On your list above, Anglican Mainstream is UK, no USA. Some of the groups on your list and my link are tiny. I forget, but I remember one being nothing but men claiming to be Bishops without diocese or parish.

    Why? When TEC jumped from orthodoxy to whatever they claim today.....clearly not Christian, it was like kicking over an anthill. Ants go everywhere and there is mass confusion. Another analogy would be the sinking of the Titanic. Life boats away from the ship, heading is different ways not really working together, following the captain of the boat.

    What keeps them apart? Sin. There is no reason for the orthodox Anglicans to not come together in one jurisdiction. A former Primate of the Anglican Catholic Church, The Most Reverend Brother John-Charles, F.O.D.C., was reported to have said this when he was asked why. Bishops and Canons always have reasons and move slowly, I believe in the hopes people will give up on unity. Why? Ever seen a man give up the Bishop purple?

    Sorry if this comes across as a rant, it is. In my town, there are 5 Anglican jurisdictions beside the TEC. NONE are in communion with each other and appear to have no, NO desire to even acknowledge each other. This is what I get from talking with the priests. One has a woman who has been duped into thinking she is a deacon, so I can understand that. But the other four? Just childish. One told me today, the ACC mission was too Catholic and we could not worship together. This priest is snake belly low in churchmanship. I told him, I am an Anglo-Catholic and have no problem worshiping with this parish as I have for the last several months.

    The various groups have gone through much heartache, I understand that, and have trust issues. That said, no excuse. The world suffers because the Church can not get it's act together.

    Also, in the States, we take individualism to unhealthy extremes. Guess it is the nature of a young country that does not have a long history to draw from to give it an identity.

    Fr. Mark
     
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  3. zimkhitha

    zimkhitha Active Member

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    Sad state of affairs indeed. I wish the ACC could firm up its mark here in South Africa and I wouldn't hesitate to jump.
     
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  4. Ide

    Ide Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I rather like the Episcopal parish I attend, but have big misgivings about the national leadership. I have visited an ACNA church, but the priest went off about Muslims in his sermon and glorifying American patriotism. I took my spouse to that service which was a huge mistake. That was a big turnoff even though the congregation was nice and I do follow the national news for ACNA.

    As a newbie to the Christian and Anglican world, I'm very confused by all the fragmentation, various alliances & communions. Personally, I don't think I could commit to a church not in communion with Canterbury. There are just so many churches than run amok that there needs to be a larger body or authority to oversee them.
     
  5. Anne

    Anne Active Member Anglican

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    Fr. Mark, I know the feeling:(

    But! I have much hope. Do you know about the merger of the APA and the ACA? And possibly bigger news than that but I shall wait and see things announced officially first.
     
  6. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Anne,

    I have heard about it, ACA and APA. There have been supposed mergers between jurisdictions before..ACC and ACA, ACC and UECNA etc.
    Again will wait to see. So far no fruit has been shown.

    If the ACA and APA merge. The ACA would be in communion with the REC as the REC and APA have and are moving toward merger itself. They
    already share clergy. One of my friends, when he returned from Rome to the REC, now serves as Rector of an APA parish in Florida.

    I do know that the Archbishop and I believe one other Bishop of the APA attended the recent Anglican Catholic Conference in Ft. Worth held
    in Bishop Iker's Diocese. (so wanted to go!) I know Archbishop Haverland (ACC) was the preacher at an Evening Prayer service. These are good signs as prior continuing churches did not interact with the larger Anglican Communion in the States.

    On a sad note, the Archbishop of the UECNA, Archbishop Robinson, backed out of the conference. The reason he gave on his facebook page was the typical can't get along with Anglo-Catholic line. The conference was too catholic for him. He has gathered smaller jurisdictions around the UECNA, but most are 1-2 parish groups like the AEC or the Diocese of the Great Lakes (I believe though could be mistaken on the title.....little late in the night.)

    The APCK, another continuing church, as I have been told is also rather isolationist with regards to the rest of Anglicanism. They lost a Diocese to the ACA within the last few years. The reason the Bishop gave was the APCK leadership not living up to promises and stated goals of coming into communion or merger with groups like the ACA.

    I personally believe the ACC, ACA, APA et al should join the ACNA. These jurisdictions would be a healthy injection of orthodox and traditional Anglicanism for the ACNA. I know the Bishops of the REC are pushing to jettison what we fondly call WO. But do need help as the first Archbishop of the ACNA was pro-WO and the current one, though not pro-WO seems reluctant to lead the way to returning the ACNA and American Anglicanism to the truth of scripture, church and reason.

    The con to their joining....too many have a bunker mentality or a us verse them attitude. The parishes also act very baptistic and jump from jurisdiction to jurisdiction on frivolous issues. If Bishops would stop accepting this jumping parishes, it would do much to help Anglicanism in the States. Also start disciplining clergy and laity who need it. Bishops are powerless to discipline as the clergy and laity will just up and flee the discipline to another jurisdiction or Bishop that is willing to increase the number of his parishes. I have seen it happen and have experienced it.

    Ide,

    the TEC has been running amok for decades. At least since the 1960's when Bishops' like Pike rejected the resurrection and virgin birth. And was not disciplined by the TEC. Now the TEC is abandoning the Christian faith. The TEC is NOT in communion with the majority of the Anglican Communion world wide. Sadly the CoE seems to have drank the same kool-aid. The Archbishop of Canterbury won't call another Lambeth because the majority of the Bishops won't come. The last Lambeth, the Southern Anglican Churches made a point of not participating or receiving communion if the TEC was present. Hey, the Rwandan and other African Archbishops have declared England a missionary field, like they did with the States. AMiA parishes setup by this Archbishops are starting to form in the UK. I believe the Bishop of London is upset with a growing AMiA parish in his diocese that does not answer to him, but to another Bishop from Africa.

    I do not know if it is permissible, but Anglican sites such as virtueonline and stand firm in faith publish this articles. For disclosure, I do not agree with the calvinistic bend of stand firm....the site owner's wife claims to be ordained. Virtue gives articles from around the anglican world on various topics. At times I do not agree with the conclusion.


    Fr Mark
     
  7. Anne

    Anne Active Member Anglican

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    I'm not able to give details at this time, but I can with much confidence and joy share with you that the APA and ACA are continuing the merging process and that, cough, the ACC may be playing a role....

    I for one do not think we (I'm currently in the ACA, attempting to make a long commute to the ACC in my area...life is complicated) should join ACNA. But then again I don't know very much! Otherwise, I'm right with you on all your points.
     
  8. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I guess the problem with finding a perfect Church is the prospect that you might muck it up by joining. Thanks for those ho have responded, I now properly understand that I do not understand.
     
  9. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Welcome to the club, Philip.
     
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  10. Ide

    Ide Well-Known Member

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    Father Mark,

    Thank you for the recent history of TEC. It's certainly a shame that it has come to be so fragmented and discordant. I honestly have been examining both Anglican and Orthodoxy for some time. I'm not ready to jump into either yet. I side more with the Anglican traditions and the majority of the Orthodox churches are first cultural clubs than churches. One Orthodox priest I spoke with seemed totally disinterested in my possible conversion and cautioned me the church is "really Greek". I took the hint and stopped attending!

    I also heavily gravitate to the Anglican traditions and perspectives as well. However, I really respect the gravity and the maintenance of the Orthodox traditions even though they are also replete with problems

    The ridiculousness of many of the US mainline churches is clearly a liberal takeover. I say this as a sort-of-liberal myself! Just look at those stupid giant papier-mâché puppets you see at some of the meetings- even at Holy Communion. You don't see the EO pulling those stunts!

    I have read Virtue Online and have come across several good articles. The overall tone does tend to become very shrill after a while, however, which limits how much I can take of the drama.
     
  11. Anne

    Anne Active Member Anglican

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    Ide,

    I, too, tried very hard to be EO and met with the same response. Praying for you...it's tough, but there _are_ traditional Anglican churches out there.
     
  12. Ide

    Ide Well-Known Member

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    Hi Anne,

    Yes, I've have been keeping an eye out for other Anglican churches in my area. However, as I'm still new to the church scene I find it's hard to navigate all the differences between the various groups, communions etc.. I enjoyed the ACNA church I visited (except the priest); the congregation was very passionate and welcoming. The priest was also suspicious because I didn't take communion that day. I just explained that I was visiting only as a guest- but it was awkward. I may give them another chance. The closest Anglo Catholic church in my region is more than 1.5 hours away and I'm not able to tackle that kind of distance right now. But I always do keep my eyes open!

    I really value everything I've learned from the EO church and teachings, even if it leaves me bewildered! In my area we have a wide array of EO churches, but all broken down ethnic lines. I've been to an Antiochian church as well, but didn't connect with the congregation. They were converts, mostly, but all about 40 years older than me! I found it hard to relate as many came from an evangelical background and were open about dismissing other Christian denominations as "inauthentic". Nice people, but just didn't gel with them.
     
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  13. Anne

    Anne Active Member Anglican

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    May I ask where you are? You can send me a private message. Just wondering if I happen to know a parish near you:)
     
  14. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    In the Eucharist we declare we are the Body of Christ, an affirmation of our sacramental role in the world. We do not do that without the power of the Spirit of God, nor without being fed and nurtured in the holy sacrament of the altar. In a very real sense that calling of the Holy Spirit, the epiclesis in the Eucharist is not so much a prayer that bread and wine might be transformed, but a prayer that we might be transformed, that our world may be transformed through our being transformed.

    We stand boldly to affirm One Church and then behave as if there are many. We need to start making our liturgy real and we need to start realising that being one Church is part of our mission. Mission and Ecumenical Dialogue are not different, but rather both are about authentically being who we declare ourselves to be. An Oecumenical outlook may indeed be a sixth Mark of Mission.​

    I have been much perplexed by the American Church of late, and when I found this, that I had written on another subject completely I thought I would share it. I have no sense of judgement, good heavens the Australian Church has little to hold aloft, but it does seem to me that out fragmentation is a great tragedy.
     
  15. Anne

    Anne Active Member Anglican

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    And a tragedy it is indeed!

    But after growing up in the PCA for so long, discovering that there are fragmented "continuing Anglican churches" has been the very best thing that's ever happened to me.
     
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